1
00:00:12,580 --> 00:00:08,670
[Music]

2
00:00:15,970 --> 00:00:12,590
this hope radio for the masses Atlanta

3
00:00:17,470 --> 00:00:15,980
believe July 8 1947 he's on the air

4
00:00:19,839 --> 00:00:17,480
force was present on start applying

5
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:19,849
their - found and is now in the

6
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:22,130
possession of the army the game is

7
00:00:26,650 --> 00:00:22,490
rigged

8
00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:26,660
change the game changer I occasionally

9
00:00:33,189 --> 00:00:29,510
think how quickly our differences

10
00:00:41,140 --> 00:00:33,199
worldwide would vanish if we were facing

11
00:00:46,870 --> 00:00:43,930
this is fade to black with your host

12
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:46,880
Jimmy Church on the game changer radio

13
00:00:53,939 --> 00:00:50,090
network and kg are a global radio

14
00:01:04,609 --> 00:00:56,410
in your help

15
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:06,919
with jimmy touch on the game change in

16
00:01:11,539 --> 00:01:07,810
that blood

17
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:11,549
[Music]

18
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:16,250
well well well good evening

19
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:23,210
fade to black the spoke radio for

20
00:01:30,380 --> 00:01:24,770
[Music]

21
00:01:33,650 --> 00:01:30,390
masses yeah good evening how are ya did

22
00:01:37,810 --> 00:01:33,660
you have a great Labor Day weekend we

23
00:01:41,660 --> 00:01:37,820
did today is Tuesday September 3rd 2019

24
00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:41,670
245 days into the new year just 120 days

25
00:01:50,150 --> 00:01:47,220
left and we are live we are live from a

26
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:50,160
bunker somewhere in the middle of

27
00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:52,170
beautiful downtown Burbank California

28
00:01:56,770 --> 00:01:54,240
and I would like to welcome everybody

29
00:02:00,890 --> 00:01:56,780
listening all around the world all

30
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:00,900
across the United States hither and

31
00:02:08,030 --> 00:02:03,810
thither to and fro back and forth up and

32
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:08,040
down east and west north and south far

33
00:02:15,410 --> 00:02:12,810
and near this is fade to black for a kjc

34
00:02:18,070 --> 00:02:15,420
are the game changer Network and K GRA

35
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:18,080
the planet I am your host Jimmy Church

36
00:02:25,300 --> 00:02:21,210
what is cracking everybody I hope you

37
00:02:28,070 --> 00:02:25,310
had a great amazing safe fun weekend

38
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:28,080
with family and friends and you got some

39
00:02:34,130 --> 00:02:30,090
time off and you had an opportunity to

40
00:02:37,790 --> 00:02:34,140
eat too much and drink too much we did

41
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:37,800
all of that and we did a replay last

42
00:02:43,790 --> 00:02:42,090
night spent time with family and friends

43
00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:43,800
so there you go

44
00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:47,310
but kicking off this week here on fade

45
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:47,700
to black

46
00:02:54,199 --> 00:02:50,730
tonight author and researcher Greg

47
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:54,209
Bishop is here joining the show for the

48
00:02:58,970 --> 00:02:55,890
first time I've wanted Greg on the show

49
00:03:02,830 --> 00:02:58,980
for many many years we finally got it

50
00:03:06,140 --> 00:03:02,840
lined up over the last few weeks and

51
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:06,150
Greg is here he's author and researcher

52
00:03:11,949 --> 00:03:09,330
and has done so much in the field of

53
00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:11,959
ufology going back a couple of decades

54
00:03:16,820 --> 00:03:14,310
back in 1991

55
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:16,830
Greg co-founded a magazine called the

56
00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:19,890
excluded middle which was a journal of

57
00:03:25,820 --> 00:03:22,350
UFOs conspiracy research psyckadeli and

58
00:03:26,390 --> 00:03:25,830
new science Greg has published five

59
00:03:28,610 --> 00:03:26,400
books

60
00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:28,620
wake up down there project beta weird

61
00:03:36,830 --> 00:03:32,070
California a book about weird California

62
00:03:40,370 --> 00:03:36,840
sites and n stories and it defies

63
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:40,380
language a book about et written

64
00:03:46,430 --> 00:03:41,730
language we're going to talk about that

65
00:03:48,590 --> 00:03:46,440
tonight and a is for Adamski from 2007

66
00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:48,600
to 2011 Greg blogged for the UFO and

67
00:03:54,050 --> 00:03:51,329
paranormal site UFO mystic and then in

68
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:54,060
2017 he contributed an essay entitled

69
00:03:59,090 --> 00:03:57,090
the co-creation hypothesis human

70
00:04:01,940 --> 00:03:59,100
perception the informational universe

71
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:01,950
and the overhaul of UFO research for the

72
00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:06,090
anthology UFOs reframing the debate his

73
00:04:11,030 --> 00:04:07,920
long-running podcast can be heard at

74
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:11,040
radio Mysterio calm the links are over

75
00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:13,290
at Jimmy Church radio calm he has

76
00:04:18,259 --> 00:04:15,510
appeared in the documentaries fields of

77
00:04:20,569 --> 00:04:18,269
fear about cattle mutilations mirages

78
00:04:23,390 --> 00:04:20,579
men which we have discussed many times

79
00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:23,400
on this show based on his book project

80
00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:25,680
beta and the Travel Channel series

81
00:04:30,670 --> 00:04:28,110
mysteries of the national parks and most

82
00:04:33,050 --> 00:04:30,680
recently and History Channel's

83
00:04:34,820 --> 00:04:33,060
unidentified he also served as a

84
00:04:36,830 --> 00:04:34,830
consultant for the tienen series the

85
00:04:39,590 --> 00:04:36,840
conspiracy zone with Kevin Nealon and

86
00:04:42,470 --> 00:04:39,600
for nearly two decades he has lectured

87
00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:42,480
extensively at conferences conventions

88
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:45,720
from elementary to college students

89
00:04:49,610 --> 00:04:46,770
I would like to welcome for the first

90
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:49,620
time to fade to black Greg Bishop Greg

91
00:04:59,210 --> 00:04:55,410
it's about time man Greg yeah can you

92
00:05:00,770 --> 00:04:59,220
okay don't scare me like that we've been

93
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:00,780
waiting for this conversation for so

94
00:05:06,980 --> 00:05:03,210
long and we start off with feedback how

95
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:06,990
you doing I'm doing good it looks like

96
00:05:09,980 --> 00:05:08,730
my Wi-Fi like took a dump here for half

97
00:05:12,620 --> 00:05:09,990
a second let's see if it's coming back

98
00:05:14,660 --> 00:05:12,630
yeah yeah we're good yeah we're all good

99
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:14,670
Greg we're all good okay

100
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:17,130
pretty exciting times right now in

101
00:05:25,390 --> 00:05:22,370
ufology we have never before had

102
00:05:28,850 --> 00:05:25,400
coverage of UFOs in the mainstream media

103
00:05:30,620 --> 00:05:28,860
both on television and in print you've

104
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:30,630
been researching the subject for a very

105
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:32,490
long time it's pretty exciting to see

106
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:36,930
UFOs in the mainstream isn't it yeah and

107
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:41,010
well the main thing apart from the high

108
00:05:45,530 --> 00:05:44,010
profile UFOs think there's more

109
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:45,540
scientists academics and people like

110
00:05:49,130 --> 00:05:47,490
that that are less weirded out or

111
00:05:50,780 --> 00:05:49,140
embarrassed or whatever to talk about it

112
00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:50,790
and that to me it's it's pretty amazing

113
00:06:05,030 --> 00:05:53,970
because that means ufology will have a

114
00:06:08,150 --> 00:06:05,040
sister now we have but just to get that

115
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:08,160
boost yeah I need you to repeat

116
00:06:12,130 --> 00:06:09,810
everything that you just said Greg you

117
00:06:14,570 --> 00:06:12,140
dropped out oh sorry

118
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:14,580
what's exciting to me is that science

119
00:06:20,450 --> 00:06:18,090
and academia are getting interested and

120
00:06:22,610 --> 00:06:20,460
people that are in those fields are less

121
00:06:25,670 --> 00:06:22,620
embarrassed I guess to talk about it

122
00:06:27,230 --> 00:06:25,680
examine it and maybe can push us into

123
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:27,240
different areas that we haven't been

124
00:06:31,909 --> 00:06:29,690
able to because of the sort of the

125
00:06:35,330 --> 00:06:31,919
whatchamacallit what would you call it

126
00:06:37,340 --> 00:06:35,340
the the circular nature of UFO research

127
00:06:40,159 --> 00:06:37,350
or Lisa civilian side for the last 50

128
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:40,169
years yeah it is definitely a circular

129
00:06:46,850 --> 00:06:43,650
nature what's exciting for me is when I

130
00:06:49,610 --> 00:06:46,860
go outside of ufology and I listen to

131
00:06:53,090 --> 00:06:49,620
scientists and physicists openly talk

132
00:06:57,100 --> 00:06:53,100
about et contact and what that would be

133
00:06:59,340 --> 00:06:57,110
like in the search for an et presence

134
00:07:01,140 --> 00:06:59,350
not only outside

135
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:01,150
of our solar system in the Milky Way but

136
00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:04,210
throughout the universe and that that

137
00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:06,910
includes exoplanets and this constant

138
00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:11,440
search now for an intelligent

139
00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:13,600
civilization out there when I hear that

140
00:07:18,540 --> 00:07:16,870
spoken about with mainstream scientists

141
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:18,550
and physicists that to me is the most

142
00:07:23,730 --> 00:07:21,250
exciting thing because for them it was

143
00:07:27,530 --> 00:07:23,740
about as taboo as it gets but it seems

144
00:07:32,220 --> 00:07:27,540
like it has finally arrived hasn't it

145
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:32,230
yeah I mean it's the fact that but I'll

146
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:34,330
tell you something I was about to

147
00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:37,170
present a paper paper whatever a talk

148
00:07:42,210 --> 00:07:39,910
called it exists what do we do about it

149
00:07:45,060 --> 00:07:42,220
which means you know the this weird

150
00:07:47,340 --> 00:07:45,070
stuff a lot of it is real so what do we

151
00:07:49,980 --> 00:07:47,350
do about it and right before I was gonna

152
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:49,990
give the talk a friend of mine I was

153
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:51,490
sitting in her office and she said hey

154
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:53,530
did you see the newest National

155
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:56,050
Geographic and from I think was April of

156
00:07:59,790 --> 00:07:57,730
this year it's there was a radio

157
00:08:01,440 --> 00:07:59,800
telescope and the big headline on the

158
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:01,450
front cover of National Geographic are

159
00:08:06,780 --> 00:08:05,290
is we are not alone so I wondered huh I

160
00:08:09,150 --> 00:08:06,790
wonder if they ever had a cover that

161
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:09,160
said are we alone and damned if they did

162
00:08:13,980 --> 00:08:12,130
ten years ago in 2009 another cover with

163
00:08:16,140 --> 00:08:13,990
a star field on it it said are we alone

164
00:08:18,150 --> 00:08:16,150
so 10 years apart are we alone we are

165
00:08:19,770 --> 00:08:18,160
not alone and what they're talking about

166
00:08:22,110 --> 00:08:19,780
is what you just said exoplanets which

167
00:08:25,020 --> 00:08:22,120
is what reminded me and there's just so

168
00:08:26,730 --> 00:08:25,030
many of them that they're the the idea

169
00:08:27,990 --> 00:08:26,740
now of course as well god if there's

170
00:08:30,570 --> 00:08:28,000
that many of them there's got to be life

171
00:08:32,670 --> 00:08:30,580
on some of them I mean it's common comp

172
00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:32,680
planet exoplanet that's are common

173
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:33,910
they're not rare it's people used to

174
00:08:37,230 --> 00:08:36,130
think so that's kind of exciting now as

175
00:08:37,830 --> 00:08:37,240
to whether they can't they've come here

176
00:08:39,719 --> 00:08:37,840
or not

177
00:08:41,070 --> 00:08:39,729
I'm still not sure but you know

178
00:08:43,580 --> 00:08:41,080
something something may walk into my

179
00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:43,590
bedroom tonight and change my mind

180
00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:47,500
Greg what what god ii started in in

181
00:08:52,350 --> 00:08:49,690
ufology and research was that your

182
00:08:55,170 --> 00:08:52,360
parents were they crazy did you have a

183
00:09:00,090 --> 00:08:55,180
sighting when you were young what got

184
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:00,100
you here I really don't know for some

185
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:02,290
reason I used to go to the library every

186
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:04,930
week I mean my dad took us and he said

187
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:07,090
get three books as many as you want I

188
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:08,650
guess at least three read them and bring

189
00:09:13,260 --> 00:09:10,210
them back next week for some reason all

190
00:09:16,610 --> 00:09:13,270
I read or at least 90% of what I read

191
00:09:19,260 --> 00:09:16,620
were UFO paranormal ghosts Bigfoot

192
00:09:20,790 --> 00:09:19,270
cryptozoological books Loch Ness monster

193
00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:20,800
I read all those when I was a little kid

194
00:09:24,389 --> 00:09:23,110
and I read them until we went to another

195
00:09:26,510 --> 00:09:24,399
library and I finished off all those

196
00:09:28,650 --> 00:09:26,520
books too so for some reason I was

197
00:09:31,410 --> 00:09:28,660
voraciously interested in the subject

198
00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:31,420
now I don't know if that was because of

199
00:09:34,650 --> 00:09:32,920
some weird experience or something that

200
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:34,660
I don't remember any I have had a couple

201
00:09:38,579 --> 00:09:36,490
of weird sightings and things since then

202
00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:38,589
but when I was a kid no I just the

203
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:40,180
interest came out of nowhere so I don't

204
00:09:44,130 --> 00:09:41,730
know maybe it's a previous life I was

205
00:09:46,019 --> 00:09:44,140
affected or I came from another planet I

206
00:09:47,340 --> 00:09:46,029
don't know but it's it seemed to just

207
00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:47,350
come out of nowhere that's all I was

208
00:09:51,420 --> 00:09:48,700
interested in when I was a kid

209
00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:51,430
well I always enjoy asking and I didn't

210
00:09:55,769 --> 00:09:54,160
do the first time guest disclaimer in my

211
00:09:57,030 --> 00:09:55,779
excitement of getting you on the show

212
00:09:59,850 --> 00:09:57,040
might as well get this out of the way

213
00:10:03,210 --> 00:09:59,860
I'm almost tired of seeing it pop up in

214
00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:03,220
Twitter yes I did forget which is Greg

215
00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:05,350
this is just you and I sitting in my

216
00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:07,540
couch having a conversation as friends

217
00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:09,550
and where that conversation starts it

218
00:10:13,290 --> 00:10:11,230
starts where it ends it ends but we're

219
00:10:15,660 --> 00:10:13,300
gonna end his friends there I got it out

220
00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:15,670
of the way the disclaimer is now there

221
00:10:20,190 --> 00:10:16,990
we can move on

222
00:10:22,290 --> 00:10:20,200
that's fine it's just we're just sitting

223
00:10:26,190 --> 00:10:22,300
in a room having a talk well see I

224
00:10:29,780 --> 00:10:26,200
always enjoy asking somebody for the

225
00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:29,790
first time what they have seen because

226
00:10:35,699 --> 00:10:33,310
the the first time you see something

227
00:10:38,490 --> 00:10:35,709
that you can't explain in the sky it is

228
00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:38,500
truly an epiphany it's a life-changing

229
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:40,990
moment and you've been doing this

230
00:10:46,699 --> 00:10:43,450
research for a very long time what was

231
00:10:50,010 --> 00:10:46,709
the first sighting that you remember

232
00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:50,020
jeez I've only seen maybe three things I

233
00:10:54,510 --> 00:10:52,089
couldn't explain the first one I

234
00:10:56,670 --> 00:10:54,520
remember strangely enough was that

235
00:10:59,490 --> 00:10:56,680
Burning Man and no I wasn't high I

236
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:59,500
wasn't drunk I wasn't on anything which

237
00:11:03,269 --> 00:11:00,880
is kind of weird being at Burning Man

238
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:03,279
but I wasn't anyway all I saw were these

239
00:11:08,010 --> 00:11:05,050
lights they could have been a hundred

240
00:11:09,930 --> 00:11:08,020
miles away little faint lights moving in

241
00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:09,940
right angles like they were attached to

242
00:11:13,050 --> 00:11:11,470
an etch-a-sketch I watched that for

243
00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:13,060
about 10 minutes and nothing changed so

244
00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:14,470
I stopped watching and then they went

245
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:16,390
away later the second one was an

246
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:18,370
extremely bright light like brighter

247
00:11:22,829 --> 00:11:21,370
than a star that didn't move it didn't

248
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:22,839
move with the Stars it didn't move at

249
00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:24,970
all it was over Death Valley at 2:00 in

250
00:11:26,940 --> 00:11:26,529
the morning when I drove into Death

251
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:26,950
Valley

252
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:28,330
one time at 2:00 in the morning and I

253
00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:30,010
think it was over the mercury test site

254
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:31,630
which is you know in Nevada where they

255
00:11:36,390 --> 00:11:34,510
used to test nuclear weapons right or

256
00:11:37,950 --> 00:11:36,400
area 51 somewhere in there but it was

257
00:11:40,140 --> 00:11:37,960
far enough away to the east of Death

258
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:40,150
Valley and it was really really bright I

259
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,010
mean it wasn't a star if it was an

260
00:11:46,020 --> 00:11:44,560
airplane it didn't move and the third

261
00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:46,030
one was the most dramatic that was

262
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:50,470
probably about mm maybe 9 or 10 years

263
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:50,800
ago

264
00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:54,490
I was flying in an airplane with a

265
00:11:59,730 --> 00:11:55,510
friend of mine that you know like a

266
00:12:01,290 --> 00:11:59,740
Cessna it got very very turbulent we

267
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:01,300
went weightless in our seats a few times

268
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:02,890
and we thought well maybe we were to go

269
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,130
land so we did and as I was leaving the

270
00:12:10,410 --> 00:12:08,320
airport this was in Santa Barbara and

271
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:10,420
getting on the freeway I looked up and

272
00:12:13,620 --> 00:12:12,490
over the end of one of the runways or at

273
00:12:14,910 --> 00:12:13,630
least what I thought was the end of one

274
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:14,920
the runway is about a half a mile away

275
00:12:20,490 --> 00:12:17,650
maybe less maybe a quarter-mile not too

276
00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:20,500
far was this black thing that looked

277
00:12:25,830 --> 00:12:24,550
like a six-pointed I don't know what it

278
00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:25,840
would look like I mean it looked like a

279
00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:27,220
wheel without spoke

280
00:12:33,900 --> 00:12:29,140
I mean without a rim but there were a

281
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:33,910
thick black hexagonal shiny thing with

282
00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:36,010
little rectangles coming out of the side

283
00:12:39,620 --> 00:12:38,230
of it was totally black but it was shiny

284
00:12:41,790 --> 00:12:39,630
because I could see the sunlight

285
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,800
glinting off it from the sunset it was

286
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:43,600
right at sunset I had see the orange

287
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:46,750
light reflecting off this black thing

288
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:48,730
and it did not move I mean it was like

289
00:12:53,850 --> 00:12:50,410
Stockstill and there was a lot of wind

290
00:12:56,220 --> 00:12:53,860
so I don't know what that was and the

291
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:56,230
weird thing is Jimmy this happens to

292
00:13:01,440 --> 00:12:59,440
people I said that's interesting and I

293
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:01,450
got in my car and left I could have

294
00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:03,040
driven there in five minutes less than

295
00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:06,640
five minutes right so do you know how

296
00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:09,480
many times I've heard this type of

297
00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:12,040
encounter and I've done the same thing

298
00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:16,270
myself it's you absorb it for the moment

299
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:20,830
and then you tend to move on how big was

300
00:13:23,940 --> 00:13:21,130
it

301
00:13:27,270 --> 00:13:23,950
I don't know from that distance was

302
00:13:29,220 --> 00:13:27,280
probably a probably uh between 100 and

303
00:13:31,620 --> 00:13:29,230
200 feet high was round it was like a

304
00:13:33,420 --> 00:13:31,630
was like a circle with no you know it

305
00:13:35,070 --> 00:13:33,430
just had these it was an eight-pointed

306
00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:35,080
you know had two two crosses at

307
00:13:39,510 --> 00:13:36,640
90-degree angles and the other ones that

308
00:13:40,950 --> 00:13:39,520
whatever the other crossing those in

309
00:13:43,230 --> 00:13:40,960
between like if you

310
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:43,240
kind of pizza and eight pieces but it

311
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:45,040
was they were made up these made of

312
00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:47,890
these black cylinders that were faceted

313
00:13:57,420 --> 00:13:55,140
like pencils or a a quartz crystal

314
00:14:00,480 --> 00:13:57,430
except it was black it was like glossy

315
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:00,490
black so I have no idea what that what

316
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:03,730
it that is I called it into the national

317
00:14:07,950 --> 00:14:05,530
UFO Reporting Center they had no idea

318
00:14:09,630 --> 00:14:07,960
what it was I called the airport the

319
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:09,640
next day and I said did you guys because

320
00:14:13,530 --> 00:14:11,110
it was hanging right over the for runway

321
00:14:16,050 --> 00:14:13,540
we left on runway one-five at Santa

322
00:14:17,220 --> 00:14:16,060
Barbara Airport I said was there

323
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:17,230
something hanging over the end of one

324
00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:19,210
five over the beach like last night like

325
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:21,910
a balloon or some weird things like no

326
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,290
nobody said anything we didn't see

327
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:25,600
anything Jesus was right there was plain

328
00:14:29,490 --> 00:14:27,310
as day but they claimed that they had

329
00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:29,500
seen nothing and you didn't take out

330
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:33,280
your camera I had an old flip phone with

331
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:35,050
a camera on it that probably would take

332
00:14:38,010 --> 00:14:36,730
a picture of my hand from four feet away

333
00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:38,020
and you couldn't tell what it was I mean

334
00:14:42,330 --> 00:14:40,270
it was a really bad camera right but I

335
00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:42,340
could have taken a picture and I didn't

336
00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:44,230
that was the other thing too so you know

337
00:14:47,460 --> 00:14:45,940
what is the first thing people say they

338
00:14:50,940 --> 00:14:47,470
say well the aliens told you you should

339
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:50,950
go away it's like well that could be but

340
00:14:54,570 --> 00:14:52,180
I also think that when you see something

341
00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:54,580
that weird that doesn't make any sense

342
00:14:58,650 --> 00:14:56,230
your mind just kind of goes okay that

343
00:15:00,420 --> 00:14:58,660
doesn't go anywhere so move on I mean

344
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:00,430
it's just it's a reaction your mind has

345
00:15:03,660 --> 00:15:01,810
because there's nowhere to put that

346
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:03,670
thing and it's far enough away I mean

347
00:15:06,660 --> 00:15:05,170
thing was right hanging right over me

348
00:15:10,830 --> 00:15:06,670
probably had a totally different

349
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:10,840
reaction well and this is the the did

350
00:15:16,290 --> 00:15:13,330
you absorb it you know did you take the

351
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:16,300
moment to just remember it and when you

352
00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:18,880
think about it today is it still crystal

353
00:15:22,260 --> 00:15:20,470
clear yes

354
00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:22,270
totally I mean I stood there for

355
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:24,670
probably a good maybe two three five

356
00:15:30,180 --> 00:15:26,530
minutes and just stare that saying what

357
00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:30,190
is that it's not moving it's not part of

358
00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:31,750
the airport it wasn't I mean it was

359
00:15:38,630 --> 00:15:34,600
right at the we took off over it that

360
00:15:44,460 --> 00:15:40,950
well you know and this is the other

361
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:44,470
thing what do you make of when you have

362
00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:46,720
a daylight sighting like that which I

363
00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:48,100
always classifiers

364
00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:51,340
that's a Holy Grail moment because at

365
00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:54,220
night it's lights in the sky you can't

366
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:54,670
see

367
00:15:58,680 --> 00:15:56,170
the structure of the craft not

368
00:16:01,140 --> 00:15:58,690
necessarily sometimes you can do it but

369
00:16:03,090 --> 00:16:01,150
a daylight sighting is completely

370
00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:03,100
different from a nighttime sighting

371
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:06,550
isn't it as elementary as that is to say

372
00:16:11,820 --> 00:16:08,890
there's a profound difference between

373
00:16:13,290 --> 00:16:11,830
the two right yeah I would say so I've

374
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:13,300
never really heard anybody put it that

375
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:14,530
way but you're right because that's why

376
00:16:19,950 --> 00:16:16,090
they like disks are called daylight

377
00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:19,960
discs I guess just not just UFOs so yeah

378
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:21,840
and the other thing it's in the daytime

379
00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:24,610
you not only you know there's no lights

380
00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:26,080
I didn't see any lights on it so it

381
00:16:30,750 --> 00:16:27,430
wasn't like these lights zipping around

382
00:16:34,650 --> 00:16:30,760
and it didn't move at all so I didn't

383
00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:34,660
get that but yeah it's a nighttime the

384
00:16:40,530 --> 00:16:36,910
other thing at nighttime is you can't

385
00:16:42,450 --> 00:16:40,540
see anything and your lizard brain is

386
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:42,460
probably a lot more on high alert like

387
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:44,710
is it gonna get next to me and do I have

388
00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:46,930
to run what am I gonna do this is crazy

389
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:49,000
there's nobody around me or whatever but

390
00:16:51,810 --> 00:16:50,290
in the daytime it's like you can see

391
00:16:52,860 --> 00:16:51,820
buildings you see cars you can see other

392
00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:52,870
stuff if you're out in the country you

393
00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:54,220
can see trees and things so you're not

394
00:16:59,220 --> 00:16:56,860
you don't have as much disorientation so

395
00:17:00,930 --> 00:16:59,230
yeah I would say that there is a market

396
00:17:03,180 --> 00:17:00,940
difference between a daylight in the

397
00:17:06,810 --> 00:17:03,190
night time sighting just because of you

398
00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:06,820
know just visual cues yeah now I'm gonna

399
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:08,920
change gears just a little bit I'm gonna

400
00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:12,250
stay on this path though which is you've

401
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:16,230
done a lot of research into contactees

402
00:17:21,930 --> 00:17:19,450
abductions your book on ET languages

403
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:21,940
which we'll discuss in depth later of

404
00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:24,730
course on ET language it's one of the

405
00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:26,350
chapters though but I can talk about it

406
00:17:32,970 --> 00:17:28,990
yet and of course Richard Doty and

407
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:32,980
Mirage men and with with this massive

408
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:38,050
amount of contact ease and abduction

409
00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:40,510
experiences and people that recount

410
00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:45,190
their own personal information on this

411
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:48,190
there's something going on in a very

412
00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:53,770
very wide stroke of the population it

413
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,450
could participant into the millions what

414
00:18:05,010 --> 00:18:01,120
what's your assessment of what is going

415
00:18:06,990 --> 00:18:05,020
on I don't have an assessment of what's

416
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:07,000
going on except that something is

417
00:18:10,830 --> 00:18:08,650
happening to people and it's not

418
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:10,840
coming from them I don't know where it's

419
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,510
coming from if I had an experience I

420
00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:15,520
might suddenly collapse my you know my

421
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:18,760
my my wave form and suddenly decide yes

422
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:20,170
it's aliens coming from other planets

423
00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:22,410
but I don't like to make that assumption

424
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:25,590
because we don't have enough you know

425
00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:27,790
objective to me objective evidence for

426
00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:29,080
that we have objected evidence that

427
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:30,760
something very weird is going on and

428
00:18:34,620 --> 00:18:33,280
it's not people being nuts the other

429
00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:34,630
part of that the reason I do that is

430
00:18:39,210 --> 00:18:36,340
because if I make an assumption about

431
00:18:41,790 --> 00:18:39,220
what it is I closed off all the avenues

432
00:18:43,650 --> 00:18:41,800
to any other idea that it might be right

433
00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:43,660
so I like to keep those options open it

434
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:45,190
doesn't mean I don't believe in aliens

435
00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:46,620
or whatever I think it's a you know

436
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:49,990
people say I was anti e th I kinda was I

437
00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:53,170
guess I kinda am sort of but it's it's

438
00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:55,870
not because of you know being a skeptic

439
00:19:00,360 --> 00:18:57,970
and saying this isn't happening it's

440
00:19:03,570 --> 00:19:00,370
because I don't want to collapse my

441
00:19:05,610 --> 00:19:03,580
belief system into one thing because the

442
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:05,620
minute you do that in ufology and you've

443
00:19:08,430 --> 00:19:06,850
seen this I'm sure over and over

444
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:08,440
somebody says it's this no it's not it's

445
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:09,850
this no it's not it's this and they're

446
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:12,610
all right and they're all wrong you know

447
00:19:17,670 --> 00:19:14,290
you can find evidence for just about

448
00:19:20,550 --> 00:19:17,680
anything in the UFO field and the main

449
00:19:23,370 --> 00:19:20,560
idea is about e th and there's a few

450
00:19:25,170 --> 00:19:23,380
others to those hold up real well but

451
00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:25,180
not always and the other thing is and I

452
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:26,470
have a t-shirt that says said it's

453
00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:29,890
repeatable but not on demand because

454
00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:31,510
that's what that's what's you know

455
00:19:35,010 --> 00:19:32,590
that's what science demands is

456
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:35,020
repeatability on demand and you know

457
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:38,460
UFOs the paranormal ghosts maybe

458
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:42,610
cryptozoology [\h__\h] cryptids psychic

459
00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:44,230
functioning those things are repeatable

460
00:19:48,810 --> 00:19:45,820
but you can't do it every single time

461
00:19:50,730 --> 00:19:48,820
which is what makes it difficult for you

462
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:50,740
know uh Neil deGrasse Tyson to believe

463
00:19:55,230 --> 00:19:53,410
that there's anything there but like I

464
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:55,240
said as I said the title of my talk it

465
00:19:59,610 --> 00:19:57,610
is is it exists what do we do about it

466
00:20:02,120 --> 00:19:59,620
so I'm still under what do we do about

467
00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:02,130
it part I totally am fine with it exists

468
00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:04,840
yeah and you bring up a great point

469
00:20:11,250 --> 00:20:08,590
because when you have physicists and

470
00:20:14,190 --> 00:20:11,260
scientists you can divide them down the

471
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:14,200
middle where you have somebody like Neil

472
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:18,250
deGrasse Tyson that is steadfast in his

473
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:20,770
in his belief system where you're not

474
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:21,360
going to ban

475
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:23,940
him and then you have the other side of

476
00:20:29,930 --> 00:20:26,690
the scientific community that is

477
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:29,940
fascinated with consciousness and and

478
00:20:38,539 --> 00:20:34,400
what elevates an atom or particle into

479
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:38,549
combining itself into a sentient being

480
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:42,480
you and I are made from atoms that don't

481
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:46,110
have brains right but yet we are able to

482
00:20:52,940 --> 00:20:48,510
make decisions and have laughter and

483
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:52,950
dream and have identity in an individual

484
00:20:57,740 --> 00:20:56,130
identity and the the scientific

485
00:20:59,450 --> 00:20:57,750
community that is fascinated with that

486
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:59,460
understands that there could be

487
00:21:03,409 --> 00:21:01,679
something else going on out there that

488
00:21:05,870 --> 00:21:03,419
we don't understand yet and then you

489
00:21:07,820 --> 00:21:05,880
have a guy like Tyson was like that you

490
00:21:09,650 --> 00:21:07,830
know we just die and turn into cosmic

491
00:21:17,090 --> 00:21:09,660
dust there's nothing to see here let's

492
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:17,100
let's move on that's exactly you know

493
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:22,320
I'll bring up the a point here and would

494
00:21:32,539 --> 00:21:25,620
love your opinion when you have somebody

495
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:32,549
who is a staunch atheist right a Dawkins

496
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:36,890
right where there is absolutely nothing

497
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:41,610
beyond death that everything here is

498
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:44,570
chemical everything here is math and

499
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:47,700
that is it there is nothing and so

500
00:21:53,060 --> 00:21:50,130
you're getting up in age and you're

501
00:21:55,789 --> 00:21:53,070
getting close to you know the

502
00:22:00,140 --> 00:21:55,799
possibility of you departing this planet

503
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:00,150
and what is it about you at that point

504
00:22:05,539 --> 00:22:02,820
do you care you know you're just like ah

505
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:05,549
whatever my life is over and and it's

506
00:22:11,539 --> 00:22:07,890
going to be too or you could be on the

507
00:22:13,370 --> 00:22:11,549
other side which is wondering about what

508
00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:13,380
isn't gonna happen after you die what's

509
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:15,240
gonna happen to your mind what's gonna

510
00:22:20,330 --> 00:22:17,850
happen to your spirit and your being is

511
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,340
there life after death and you want to

512
00:22:25,850 --> 00:22:22,799
go and experience that isn't that a

513
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:25,860
happier thought than being on the other

514
00:22:31,370 --> 00:22:27,720
side which is whatever

515
00:22:33,980 --> 00:22:31,380
yeah that that to me is just boring it

516
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:33,990
is and I've talked to a lot of skeptical

517
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:35,250
people I mean skeptical

518
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:37,770
groups I almost quit them a few times

519
00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:39,120
just because they pissed me off so much

520
00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:43,740
sometimes but the fact is that a few of

521
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:45,480
the people I talked to really got down

522
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:48,750
to brass tacks with them a couple of

523
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:50,850
them said well you know I just figured

524
00:22:54,890 --> 00:22:52,320
I'm smarter than other people it's like

525
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:54,900
that's your whole reason for being

526
00:22:59,210 --> 00:22:56,610
skeptical because you want to feel

527
00:23:02,690 --> 00:22:59,220
smarter than other people you know that

528
00:23:05,660 --> 00:23:02,700
I that just seems so depressing to me

529
00:23:08,980 --> 00:23:05,670
just like you just said how why would

530
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:08,990
you shut down like a whole Vista of

531
00:23:16,130 --> 00:23:11,520
interesting thought

532
00:23:18,020 --> 00:23:16,140
history of spirituality the idea that

533
00:23:19,550 --> 00:23:18,030
science is looking at spirituality now

534
00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:19,560
and seeing that maybe it's not

535
00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:21,240
inconsistent with some of the newest

536
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:23,220
theories why would you throw all that

537
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:25,050
away just to feel smarter than somebody

538
00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:25,500
else

539
00:23:32,510 --> 00:23:27,900
yeah and there's been a strange turn

540
00:23:36,530 --> 00:23:32,520
lately in science over the last six

541
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:36,540
months and it's this that the Big Bang

542
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:40,320
may not have happened right which is

543
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:44,460
what Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson all

544
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:48,330
of those atheist physicists and

545
00:23:53,690 --> 00:23:50,730
scientists you know they they hinge

546
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:53,700
their careers on the Big Bang that it

547
00:23:59,330 --> 00:23:56,640
was just math it happened boom done that

548
00:24:03,140 --> 00:23:59,340
the Big Bang now may not have happened

549
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:03,150
that maybe time is infinite that the

550
00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:06,450
universe is infinite and we have now

551
00:24:13,970 --> 00:24:10,140
found a star that is 14 and a half

552
00:24:17,860 --> 00:24:13,980
billion years old it's older than our

553
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:17,870
universe which is impossible

554
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:21,930
utterly about but if this star which it

555
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:24,570
appears that it is 14 and a half billion

556
00:24:28,910 --> 00:24:25,320
years old

557
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:28,920
then this Big Bang didn't happen

558
00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:33,900
hypothesis is is getting stronger and it

559
00:24:38,690 --> 00:24:37,620
flips all of those guys over and they

560
00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:38,700
have to answer for that

561
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:43,020
and I am I I welcome it don't you no of

562
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:44,730
course I do and the thing is that even

563
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:47,580
if it's proven by you know over and over

564
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:48,810
and over again they're gonna say well

565
00:24:50,790 --> 00:24:49,210
the dad

566
00:24:52,890 --> 00:24:50,800
wrong or these people that's only one

567
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:52,900
piece of data and and they're gonna

568
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:57,130
fight it to the death I'm I am still

569
00:24:59,670 --> 00:24:58,480
reading I've been reading it for two

570
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,680
years because it's one of those books

571
00:25:02,370 --> 00:25:01,120
where I have to read every page two

572
00:25:02,790 --> 00:25:02,380
times they understand what they're

573
00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:02,800
saying

574
00:25:09,060 --> 00:25:05,830
it's called information and in the

575
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:09,070
nature of reality there's one chapter in

576
00:25:12,330 --> 00:25:10,510
there where they're talking about where

577
00:25:16,910 --> 00:25:12,340
physics came from it most of our physics

578
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:16,920
chemistry all that stuff and they say

579
00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:20,530
basically that they're the ideas that

580
00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:22,750
that physics are at least older physics

581
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:25,030
and and most of the sciences have now

582
00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:28,450
come from basically a top-down there's a

583
00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:31,720
boss Christian idea of things and they

584
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:34,150
can deny it all they want but they said

585
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:36,130
that's the culture that these ideas came

586
00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:38,650
out of and that's why it's that's why it

587
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:41,350
works for them and that you know as

588
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:43,210
people are finding out and more people

589
00:25:45,630 --> 00:25:44,530
are finding out and more people that are

590
00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:45,640
into this are finding out and other

591
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:48,280
younger people or younger scientists are

592
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:51,130
finding out none of none of that may

593
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:53,530
necessarily be true it may be that

594
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:55,600
things have exist always existed and

595
00:25:59,700 --> 00:25:57,760
always will and we have no we have no

596
00:26:01,260 --> 00:25:59,710
conception of how it was how do you know

597
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:01,270
we don't we can't conceptualize that

598
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:03,430
because we're finite our lives are

599
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:05,650
finite at least our physical lives and

600
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:08,530
that they say we die at the end of so

601
00:26:12,420 --> 00:26:10,930
it's you know if it you can't even you

602
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:12,430
know it's it's even stranger than they

603
00:26:17,010 --> 00:26:15,370
can imagine and I want to I imagined

604
00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:17,020
stranger and stranger but whether it's

605
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:18,670
right or wrong or not just to keep the

606
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:23,250
options open as I said earlier well I I

607
00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:29,290
would like to think that DNA and life

608
00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:34,500
and what has happened to create that is

609
00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:38,980
beyond chance right beyond chance this

610
00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:41,950
is not a roll of the dice it is it is

611
00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:46,540
beyond chance and that it seems to me

612
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:50,140
that if life exists here on earth then

613
00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:53,470
certainly it exists throughout the Milky

614
00:26:59,790 --> 00:26:56,140
Way it exists throughout the universe

615
00:27:01,030 --> 00:26:59,800
and what created it billions of years

616
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:01,040
ago there

617
00:27:07,060 --> 00:27:04,730
quite simply can you can go beyond and

618
00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:07,070
beyond and beyond that backwards in time

619
00:27:12,730 --> 00:27:10,760
to the point where another universe that

620
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:12,740
was created you know and we're talking

621
00:27:20,620 --> 00:27:17,150
about intelligent life that accumulates

622
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:20,630
its wisdom over billions and billions of

623
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,080
infinite years to the point where if

624
00:27:29,140 --> 00:27:26,720
that is God if that is what people call

625
00:27:31,390 --> 00:27:29,150
God I don't know if that is the

626
00:27:34,210 --> 00:27:31,400
intelligence of the universe I don't

627
00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:34,220
know but I think that is much more

628
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:42,049
likely than chance oh I always go back

629
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:44,720
to this lecture and Alan Watts lecture

630
00:27:49,690 --> 00:27:46,820
the the guy that spoke on Buddhism quite

631
00:27:53,260 --> 00:27:49,700
a bit and he said that basically what he

632
00:27:55,630 --> 00:27:53,270
said was where there he said he tells a

633
00:27:57,700 --> 00:27:55,640
story some aliens come to earth you know

634
00:27:59,890 --> 00:27:57,710
4 billion years ago and they say a bunch

635
00:28:02,680 --> 00:27:59,900
of rocks how boring when I come back you

636
00:28:04,419 --> 00:28:02,690
know 100 million years ago and there's

637
00:28:06,460 --> 00:28:04,429
things crawling around and they come in

638
00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:06,470
and they go wow this is weird and then

639
00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:07,790
they come back around now and there's

640
00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:09,950
like people doing things and going into

641
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:12,140
space and all that and he says and they

642
00:28:17,650 --> 00:28:14,210
say well excuse me this used to be rocks

643
00:28:20,650 --> 00:28:17,660
and now it's moving around so that may

644
00:28:22,030 --> 00:28:20,660
you can call it intelligent design or

645
00:28:25,659 --> 00:28:22,040
whatever you want I think it's an anthro

646
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:25,669
form horrifies a ssin of this idea but

647
00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:28,880
his idea was that life and intelligence

648
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:31,280
and all that is an inherent quality of

649
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:34,130
matter and given the right conditions it

650
00:28:40,060 --> 00:28:37,370
just happens it's just it's just the way

651
00:28:42,130 --> 00:28:40,070
that matter is made it's made to you

652
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:42,140
know be anti-entropic to to organize

653
00:28:47,530 --> 00:28:44,210
itself rather than to just be dumb

654
00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:47,540
matter so given enough time apparently

655
00:28:53,650 --> 00:28:49,820
you know with under this idea rocks turn

656
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:53,660
into people there's nothing wrong with

657
00:28:57,370 --> 00:28:56,330
that and I have said it many times I

658
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:57,380
need to take a break here

659
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:01,760
but our universe is a situation where

660
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:04,850
you cannot stop life right it has been

661
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:09,350
stopped many times on planet Earth we've

662
00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:13,010
had mass extinction events one after

663
00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:14,150
another

664
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:17,240
and then a couple of days later life

665
00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:19,730
starts again you know you have a forest

666
00:29:25,420 --> 00:29:21,830
fire you burn everything to cinders and

667
00:29:27,970 --> 00:29:25,430
you go out to that field or forest a

668
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:27,980
week later and things are growing

669
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:31,130
you can't stop life and that's just the

670
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:32,450
way that it is let's take our break

671
00:29:36,940 --> 00:29:34,640
right here our guest tonight Greg Bishop

672
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:36,950
and when we come back after this break

673
00:29:41,140 --> 00:29:39,050
I'm gonna talk about our UFO community

674
00:29:44,830 --> 00:29:41,150
I'm gonna talk about disinformation

675
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:44,840
agent of course Mirage men this is fade

676
00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:46,850
to black I'm yours Jimmy Church you can

677
00:29:50,410 --> 00:29:48,380
follow me on twitter IG a church radio

678
00:29:55,330 --> 00:29:50,420
email is jimmy at jimmy church radio

679
00:29:58,620 --> 00:29:55,340
calm Greg's website is radio mysterioso

680
00:30:05,870 --> 00:29:58,630
I'll be right back stay with us

681
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:17,220
[Music]

682
00:30:22,350 --> 00:30:19,419
welcome back fade to black our guest

683
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:22,360
tonight Greg Bishop excited about this

684
00:30:27,489 --> 00:30:25,970
Greg you need to back me up on this how

685
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:27,499
many years have we talked about getting

686
00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:30,080
you on the show not sure can hear me

687
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:32,990
okay Greg this is live radio you never

688
00:30:40,090 --> 00:30:34,730
say that okay

689
00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:40,100
I switched headphones oh good good how

690
00:30:43,210 --> 00:30:42,080
long how many years have we talked about

691
00:30:46,989 --> 00:30:43,220
getting you on fade to black

692
00:30:52,509 --> 00:30:46,999
Oh God three or four or something I'm

693
00:30:53,950 --> 00:30:52,519
not sure I mean man all right it's so

694
00:30:57,340 --> 00:30:53,960
good to have finally have you here I

695
00:30:59,259 --> 00:30:57,350
want to uh I want to talk about Mirage

696
00:31:01,210 --> 00:30:59,269
men and we'll talk about the production

697
00:31:01,869 --> 00:31:01,220
of it and your involvement and how it

698
00:31:05,399 --> 00:31:01,879
came about

699
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:05,409
we'll get to all of that but last year

700
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:09,049
Richard Doty called into the show

701
00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:13,519
on an open lines night you know D on the

702
00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:16,129
air and I've never had him on him as a

703
00:31:21,789 --> 00:31:19,100
guest but we had about a 45-minute

704
00:31:24,759 --> 00:31:21,799
conversation that night on the show and

705
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:24,769
it was an interesting conversation but

706
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:29,570
one of the points that he did say was

707
00:31:35,499 --> 00:31:31,519
this and I don't know if you're familiar

708
00:31:42,129 --> 00:31:35,509
with this but his comments on the show

709
00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:42,139
but he said that there were two speakers

710
00:31:49,299 --> 00:31:46,070
a list speakers on the circuit on the

711
00:31:53,409 --> 00:31:49,309
UFO circuit that were currently disinfo

712
00:31:55,539 --> 00:31:53,419
agents right now of course the alarm

713
00:31:58,749 --> 00:31:55,549
bells went off who could he be talking

714
00:32:04,930 --> 00:31:58,759
about I immediately made a bunch of

715
00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:04,940
phone calls the next day to to those who

716
00:32:07,629 --> 00:32:06,710
I consider to be at the top top top

717
00:32:13,629 --> 00:32:07,639
right

718
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:13,639
you know and and I know I wasn't one of

719
00:32:22,450 --> 00:32:18,610
them but it caused people to look at

720
00:32:24,970 --> 00:32:22,460
others and and wonder who was richer

721
00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:24,980
talking about now and the other side of

722
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:27,769
it is was Richard even telling us the

723
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:30,710
truth right is he just tried

724
00:32:37,630 --> 00:32:33,610
freak us out is he just being his old

725
00:32:41,139 --> 00:32:37,640
disinfo agent self I'm not so sure but

726
00:32:44,289 --> 00:32:41,149
the comment was there now when I say

727
00:32:47,049 --> 00:32:44,299
that to you and this is this is verbatim

728
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:47,059
this is word-for-word from Richard

729
00:32:51,730 --> 00:32:50,240
Dodie's mouth when when you hear me say

730
00:32:56,169 --> 00:32:51,740
that what goes through your mind

731
00:32:57,730 --> 00:32:56,179
considering Richards background what

732
00:33:00,730 --> 00:32:57,740
goes through my mind when you say that

733
00:33:03,810 --> 00:33:00,740
is I really don't care if he said that

734
00:33:07,149 --> 00:33:03,820
because if there is somebody doing that

735
00:33:10,510 --> 00:33:07,159
there is so much junk being thrown in

736
00:33:12,850 --> 00:33:10,520
the UFO arena still that it doesn't

737
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:12,860
really matter that's spreading disinfo

738
00:33:18,430 --> 00:33:16,850
and if they are it's you know it's I

739
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,440
don't know if it's a good for a good

740
00:33:21,490 --> 00:33:20,000
reason or a bad but they're not gonna do

741
00:33:23,649 --> 00:33:21,500
it just to mess with people are gonna do

742
00:33:25,930 --> 00:33:23,659
it for some reason I would not know what

743
00:33:28,029 --> 00:33:25,940
that reason is but the thing is whatever

744
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:28,039
you're interested in if you let the

745
00:33:31,779 --> 00:33:29,840
paranoia of somebody thinking you know

746
00:33:33,850 --> 00:33:31,789
of thinking somebody is lying to you or

747
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:33,860
spreading dissent and disinformation is

748
00:33:39,549 --> 00:33:35,600
it all lies it's you know a bunch of

749
00:33:41,740 --> 00:33:39,559
truth with tiny little lies in it but if

750
00:33:44,889 --> 00:33:41,750
you let yourself be carried away by that

751
00:33:47,230 --> 00:33:44,899
thought then you're kind of lost I mean

752
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:47,240
you know you should be able to you know

753
00:33:50,889 --> 00:33:48,470
what and I went through a horrible

754
00:33:53,260 --> 00:33:50,899
period of paranoia Jimmy so this is kind

755
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:53,270
of where this comes from years ago and

756
00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:55,490
it wasn't from Richard odious from some

757
00:33:59,519 --> 00:33:57,260
totally different person and reason but

758
00:34:02,889 --> 00:33:59,529
the thing is if you let that take over

759
00:34:05,049 --> 00:34:02,899
you you've basically effectively lost

760
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:05,059
your ability to take in any good

761
00:34:09,070 --> 00:34:06,770
information any information really

762
00:34:11,139 --> 00:34:09,080
because you you're you're suspicious of

763
00:34:12,730 --> 00:34:11,149
everything and then there's a firm you

764
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:12,740
know and it just it never goes away

765
00:34:15,970 --> 00:34:14,510
until you finally make a decision it's

766
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:15,980
like you know what I wanted this is why

767
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:17,270
I did that's like I'm gonna stop feeling

768
00:34:23,070 --> 00:34:19,970
paranoid because I hate it well then the

769
00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:23,080
disinformation has done its job then

770
00:34:27,820 --> 00:34:25,700
right well if the f it freaks you out

771
00:34:29,290 --> 00:34:27,830
it's partially done its job yes that's

772
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:29,300
another reason why I say well then don't

773
00:34:33,070 --> 00:34:31,490
care it's just ignore it go ahead with

774
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:33,080
your stuff and if something seems right

775
00:34:36,849 --> 00:34:35,330
to you feels right and doesn't make you

776
00:34:38,829 --> 00:34:36,859
feel like you want to go you know jump

777
00:34:40,930 --> 00:34:38,839
out a window or whatever unless you like

778
00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:40,940
that if you like feeling scared then

779
00:34:44,590 --> 00:34:43,790
more power to you but if you can keep

780
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:44,600
that kind

781
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:48,290
paranoia at bay then you know if things

782
00:34:54,430 --> 00:34:50,090
open up quite a bit you know you know

783
00:34:58,060 --> 00:34:54,440
who Paul Krassner was yes yeah I talked

784
00:34:59,350 --> 00:34:58,070
to him once a long time ago we were

785
00:35:01,300 --> 00:34:59,360
friends for a while and then we kind of

786
00:35:03,130 --> 00:35:01,310
drifted apart he's a total hero of mine

787
00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:03,140
he's one of the Yippies he was one of

788
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,060
the Chicago seven he was one of the

789
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:07,760
people that you know tried to raise the

790
00:35:11,740 --> 00:35:10,010
Pentagon but levitate the Pentagon and

791
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:11,750
put up a pig for president and all kinds

792
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:15,200
of grass right that's right but what he

793
00:35:19,690 --> 00:35:17,390
one of the things he told me was I told

794
00:35:20,890 --> 00:35:19,700
him about my paranoia and he said well

795
00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:20,900
I'll tell you what happened to me

796
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:22,520
because he did a he was obsessed with

797
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:23,930
the Kennedy assassination for a while

798
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:25,970
which has driven a lot of people quite

799
00:35:30,010 --> 00:35:28,310
paranoid and he said at one point I was

800
00:35:32,770 --> 00:35:30,020
in Golden Gate Park and I just bought a

801
00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:32,780
big bag of pot like it cost him a lot of

802
00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:33,950
money because I guess this was in the

803
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:36,830
70s or late 60s or something and he said

804
00:35:40,060 --> 00:35:38,720
I saw a policeman on the other side of

805
00:35:42,730 --> 00:35:40,070
the park in Golden Gate Park like a

806
00:35:44,020 --> 00:35:42,740
police car just driving by and I freaked

807
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:44,030
out even though he couldn't see the bag

808
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:45,650
it was in my pocket I freaked out ran

809
00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:47,450
over and hid it in a tree and ran away I

810
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:49,160
thought I was gonna be arrested and

811
00:35:52,450 --> 00:35:50,960
somebody was following me I went back he

812
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:52,460
said an hour later it was gone somebody

813
00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:53,930
took it he said at that point I realized

814
00:35:58,090 --> 00:35:55,700
my paranoia had taken over so much that

815
00:36:01,060 --> 00:35:58,100
I was doing really stupid things and I

816
00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:01,070
said well what made you stop and he said

817
00:36:04,930 --> 00:36:03,380
well what made you stop I said I got

818
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:04,940
tired of it and he said it gets old

819
00:36:09,340 --> 00:36:07,250
doesn't it and that's basically my idea

820
00:36:11,260 --> 00:36:09,350
about being scared when somebody says

821
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:11,270
something like that I'll take it under

822
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:13,370
advisement but I'm not gonna let it rule

823
00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:14,930
my like is this person telling truth is

824
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:16,940
this person is this person I kind of

825
00:36:20,020 --> 00:36:18,410
don't care if they got a piece of

826
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:20,030
information that I think is important

827
00:36:23,950 --> 00:36:21,860
and useful to me and answer some of my

828
00:36:25,330 --> 00:36:23,960
questions I'm gonna take it in if it's

829
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:25,340
disinformation I'll find out eventually

830
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:28,870
and if I don't well so what you know

831
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:31,250
that's that's a really good point

832
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:36,050
and I went through a phase about and I

833
00:36:40,990 --> 00:36:37,850
want your opinion on this about five

834
00:36:44,650 --> 00:36:41,000
years ago and this happened over about a

835
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:44,660
three or four month period where I was

836
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:48,320
in conversations with different people

837
00:36:55,390 --> 00:36:50,530
of you know stature of the UFO community

838
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:55,400
and every every one of them was warning

839
00:37:02,849 --> 00:36:56,230
me

840
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:02,859
be careful this person is probably CIA

841
00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:06,310
and and I know this is a fax so you just

842
00:37:12,450 --> 00:37:08,740
need to be careful and then a week later

843
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:12,460
I would have that person that this

844
00:37:17,820 --> 00:37:14,800
person has warned me about warn me about

845
00:37:21,530 --> 00:37:17,830
somebody else right and it got to the

846
00:37:24,570 --> 00:37:21,540
point where it all went full circle

847
00:37:29,070 --> 00:37:24,580
where I went through like 20 or 30

848
00:37:31,650 --> 00:37:29,080
people of one after another warning me

849
00:37:33,630 --> 00:37:31,660
about this next person till it came back

850
00:37:37,230 --> 00:37:33,640
I was like they gained telephone right

851
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:37,240
yeah and everything just started to

852
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:42,030
overlap and the the paranoia and the

853
00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:44,650
positioning of different people inside

854
00:37:53,730 --> 00:37:48,720
of the UFO community was alarming to me

855
00:37:55,830 --> 00:37:53,740
that I thought that for my experience in

856
00:37:58,560 --> 00:37:55,840
the UFO community was that everybody got

857
00:37:59,880 --> 00:37:58,570
along and everybody listened to

858
00:38:04,380 --> 00:37:59,890
everybody else

859
00:38:07,070 --> 00:38:04,390
and they were after the same goals and

860
00:38:10,859 --> 00:38:07,080
it's it's not that kind of party is it

861
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:10,869
no no I mean it's just a everybody and

862
00:38:14,099 --> 00:38:12,640
every group has factions and people

863
00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:14,109
fighting each other and distrust and all

864
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:16,600
that the fact that the UFO community is

865
00:38:20,430 --> 00:38:18,730
unregulated and not peer-reviewed or

866
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,440
whatever you want to call it that just

867
00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:22,240
makes it even worse so it's not like the

868
00:38:26,609 --> 00:38:24,660
UFO community is a I don't think it's a

869
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:26,619
aberration that's just the way people

870
00:38:30,930 --> 00:38:29,350
act and if there's no check on it like

871
00:38:32,340 --> 00:38:30,940
somebody you know a bunch of people

872
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:32,350
saying wait a second this you know

873
00:38:36,270 --> 00:38:34,510
according to our standards this is this

874
00:38:39,540 --> 00:38:36,280
is not how you act or this is BS or

875
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:39,550
whatever we don't have that so it can go

876
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:41,410
in any direction and get as crazy as at

877
00:38:44,970 --> 00:38:43,570
once and it does which actually makes it

878
00:38:47,609 --> 00:38:44,980
makes it fun and interesting but also

879
00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:47,619
makes a toxic and rude and irritating at

880
00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:50,830
times - so do you think to me that's a

881
00:38:54,990 --> 00:38:52,660
fun ride it's more fun ride than sitting

882
00:38:56,670 --> 00:38:55,000
still in a in a quiet car you know do

883
00:39:03,660 --> 00:38:56,680
you think

884
00:39:05,550 --> 00:39:03,670
infiltration in ufology and I'm talking

885
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:05,560
about a direct you know from the Air

886
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:09,550
Force from the Navy from the CIA you

887
00:39:14,750 --> 00:39:11,520
know that are that are in the background

888
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:14,760
attending conferences taking notes and

889
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:18,730
and and and having the job of a Doty

890
00:39:27,540 --> 00:39:23,920
today probably and then I hate to add

891
00:39:28,980 --> 00:39:27,550
but so what I mean you don't really need

892
00:39:31,260 --> 00:39:28,990
that anymore you can just look on the

893
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:31,270
internet twenty thirty years ago you had

894
00:39:34,770 --> 00:39:32,710
to go do those things now you have to do

895
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:34,780
is look at people's emails and look at

896
00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:37,330
their Facebook or whatever so probably

897
00:39:40,980 --> 00:39:38,950
but the thing is I think what they're

898
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,990
mostly interested in is not keeping this

899
00:39:45,090 --> 00:39:42,640
you know keeping the secret from the

900
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:45,100
public they're more interested in who's

901
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:46,690
talking about something that might be

902
00:39:51,660 --> 00:39:48,730
relevant one to the national defense

903
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:51,670
like you know secrets and to maybe

904
00:39:55,230 --> 00:39:53,710
something useful like tea tsa says

905
00:39:56,580 --> 00:39:55,240
they're doing you know maybe maybe

906
00:39:58,740 --> 00:39:56,590
there's something actionable out of this

907
00:40:00,210 --> 00:39:58,750
maybe we can figure out maybe somebody

908
00:40:01,740 --> 00:40:00,220
in the civilian UFO community has

909
00:40:03,810 --> 00:40:01,750
figured out something about the UFOs

910
00:40:06,030 --> 00:40:03,820
that can be useful to national defense

911
00:40:08,370 --> 00:40:06,040
or or private companies or whatever

912
00:40:11,130 --> 00:40:08,380
which is a whole nother kettle of you

913
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:11,140
know fish but I think that's the reason

914
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:13,210
they'd be listening not to not to make

915
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:15,850
people crazy or to make UFO UFO research

916
00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:18,490
look bad or anything like that UFO

917
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:21,910
research does that fine on its own so

918
00:40:26,610 --> 00:40:25,510
it's like I said if it is well then so

919
00:40:29,130 --> 00:40:26,620
what it does I don't think it really

920
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:29,140
affects what people think about or what

921
00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:30,610
they how they talk about things or

922
00:40:33,870 --> 00:40:32,020
whatever I don't I really don't think

923
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:33,880
that happens it's fractured and

924
00:40:37,530 --> 00:40:36,310
factional enough as it is that only does

925
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:37,540
doesn't need to be somebody in there

926
00:40:43,830 --> 00:40:40,630
saying you know directing people

927
00:40:45,570 --> 00:40:43,840
anywhere and I don't think that you know

928
00:40:46,860 --> 00:40:45,580
and that's the other thing about you're

929
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:46,870
gonna get me on a rant but about the

930
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:49,390
disclosure movement I've said this a few

931
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:51,370
other places but to me the disclosure

932
00:40:55,590 --> 00:40:53,290
movement is like asking the parent that

933
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:55,600
always lies to you to suddenly tell you

934
00:40:59,310 --> 00:40:57,760
the absolute truth but you're only going

935
00:41:02,700 --> 00:40:59,320
to accept it if it's if it's what you

936
00:41:08,430 --> 00:41:02,710
already know anyway I would say that

937
00:41:10,580 --> 00:41:08,440
that is pretty accurate yeah you can't

938
00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:10,590
you can't answer your own question with

939
00:41:14,610 --> 00:41:13,150
question it just doesn't work that way I

940
00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:14,620
think it's far whatever the government

941
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:16,660
knows is far more complicated than what

942
00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:18,610
we think and it's probably not even what

943
00:41:23,100 --> 00:41:20,950
we think it is they might be just as

944
00:41:25,350 --> 00:41:23,110
confused as us but have you know various

945
00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:25,360
factions have better information may

946
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:26,920
what to know what to do about it may

947
00:41:32,070 --> 00:41:28,510
have artifacts they don't know what to

948
00:41:34,260 --> 00:41:32,080
do with yet I do not know but I don't

949
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:34,270
think they're a whole hell a lot further

950
00:41:40,830 --> 00:41:37,570
ahead than us on what it is they may be

951
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:40,840
furthering about on a further on than we

952
00:41:47,610 --> 00:41:43,920
are about what what can be done about it

953
00:41:49,110 --> 00:41:47,620
well we'll get a look at deeper into

954
00:41:54,690 --> 00:41:49,120
that and in just a minute

955
00:42:00,300 --> 00:41:54,700
back to Dodi when I think most people

956
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:00,310
that watch mirages men their takeaway

957
00:42:10,590 --> 00:42:06,370
from that is that Dodi was an apologetic

958
00:42:13,470 --> 00:42:10,600
and and Dodi didn't feel bad about his

959
00:42:17,870 --> 00:42:13,480
situation with Paul bennewitz and I

960
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:17,880
think that for most where I think he was

961
00:42:25,290 --> 00:42:20,560
trying to I think the way that people

962
00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:25,300
look at it was he was trying to show his

963
00:42:29,850 --> 00:42:27,670
side of it and that it was just okay he

964
00:42:32,660 --> 00:42:29,860
was just a guy taking orders right he

965
00:42:37,730 --> 00:42:32,670
was just a guy in the Air Force and

966
00:42:41,550 --> 00:42:37,740
didn't show any any sympathy or empathy

967
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:41,560
to to bennewitz or any negative effects

968
00:42:48,090 --> 00:42:43,570
that he may have had on people and

969
00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:48,100
that's the takeaway of Miraj men I think

970
00:42:54,140 --> 00:42:50,590
that's a general assessment when you

971
00:42:56,070 --> 00:42:54,150
hear that what goes through your mind

972
00:42:58,590 --> 00:42:56,080
well the first thing goes through my

973
00:42:59,940 --> 00:42:58,600
mind is he was with me when I talked to

974
00:43:02,190 --> 00:42:59,950
him about it when I was doing interviews

975
00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:02,200
for the book he was actually quite

976
00:43:06,450 --> 00:43:04,300
contrite he said look I considered Paul

977
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:06,460
a friend and I kind of felt bad about

978
00:43:09,870 --> 00:43:08,050
what was being done to him what I was

979
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:09,880
doing to him and I really don't think

980
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:12,610
I'd do it again and I feel bad about it

981
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:13,810
I wish I hadn't happened the way it

982
00:43:17,310 --> 00:43:16,240
happened now I don't think he's I think

983
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:17,320
he had more control over the situation

984
00:43:23,250 --> 00:43:21,010
than he might let on but to my mind he

985
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:23,260
seemed like you know at least he

986
00:43:26,009 --> 00:43:24,400
presented to me as

987
00:43:28,170 --> 00:43:26,019
buddy that felt bad about what he did I

988
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:28,180
don't know if he did or not but he tried

989
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:30,130
to make that impression with me now as

990
00:43:37,170 --> 00:43:34,170
far as Mirage Minh is concerned you know

991
00:43:38,789 --> 00:43:37,180
documentaries are show you a side of

992
00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:38,799
things that the filmmaker want to show

993
00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:40,630
you I don't know if Richard Doty

994
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:42,460
actually apologized or said anything

995
00:43:46,589 --> 00:43:45,130
like that and they just cut it out or

996
00:43:48,269 --> 00:43:46,599
didn't use it because I think it what

997
00:43:49,710 --> 00:43:48,279
didn't think it was important or they

998
00:43:51,539 --> 00:43:49,720
wanted to make him look like somebody

999
00:43:53,519 --> 00:43:51,549
that didn't wasn't sorry for it I do not

1000
00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:53,529
know I've never asked the director or

1001
00:43:59,549 --> 00:43:56,980
the producer those questions but like I

1002
00:44:03,150 --> 00:43:59,559
said I don't know if he was just

1003
00:44:04,769 --> 00:44:03,160
presenting that face to me and he

1004
00:44:07,799 --> 00:44:04,779
presents another face to other people or

1005
00:44:10,499 --> 00:44:07,809
what but as far as I'm concerned he at

1006
00:44:12,749 --> 00:44:10,509
least tried to feel like he tried to try

1007
00:44:15,089 --> 00:44:12,759
to make the impression that he felt bad

1008
00:44:17,039 --> 00:44:15,099
about that period so take that for what

1009
00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:17,049
you will well do you think that he's a

1010
00:44:23,759 --> 00:44:22,180
professional liar and I think that that

1011
00:44:28,499 --> 00:44:23,769
was this job I mean I think he enjoys

1012
00:44:30,029 --> 00:44:28,509
doing it I think he enjoys like I tell

1013
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:30,039
people you know other people enjoy like

1014
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:31,839
you know collecting stamps or bottle

1015
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:34,450
caps the Dodie enjoys messing with

1016
00:44:38,339 --> 00:44:36,640
people I think that's just what he

1017
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:38,349
enjoys doing if he's listening it's

1018
00:44:42,299 --> 00:44:39,970
probably you know getting angry with me

1019
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:42,309
but he said he wouldn't talk to me years

1020
00:44:45,989 --> 00:44:44,410
ago so it doesn't matter and I'm kind of

1021
00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:45,999
sorry for it I mean I like talking to

1022
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:49,720
him but I I think he that that was his

1023
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:53,890
job and he's he was or is good at it or

1024
00:44:58,589 --> 00:44:55,359
fairly good at it which is why he

1025
00:45:00,509 --> 00:44:58,599
enjoyed his work do you think well by

1026
00:45:03,479 --> 00:45:00,519
hearing you say that and I'm almost

1027
00:45:05,759 --> 00:45:03,489
uncomfortable right now in my anger but

1028
00:45:09,059 --> 00:45:05,769
not with what you have said I'm talking

1029
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:09,069
about Dodie specifically do you think

1030
00:45:16,370 --> 00:45:13,440
that he was misleading you in his

1031
00:45:17,789 --> 00:45:16,380
apologetic stance about Paul bennewitz I

1032
00:45:19,799 --> 00:45:17,799
don't know

1033
00:45:21,930 --> 00:45:19,809
you know I it could be that he truly

1034
00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:21,940
felt I'm bad about it when I was talking

1035
00:45:27,690 --> 00:45:23,470
you know we talked a lot we thought you

1036
00:45:31,049 --> 00:45:27,700
know I talked to him a bunch by email

1037
00:45:33,749 --> 00:45:31,059
and one in one mammoth for our session

1038
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:33,759
that he did not let me record we just

1039
00:45:38,849 --> 00:45:35,170
went to a Denny's and sat down and

1040
00:45:41,340 --> 00:45:38,859
talked but

1041
00:45:42,990 --> 00:45:41,350
like I said when he was talking to me I

1042
00:45:44,670 --> 00:45:43,000
thought well at least he kind of feels

1043
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:44,680
bad about it I mean that left that's

1044
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:46,690
good I suppose it doesn't make it right

1045
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:48,730
it doesn't make it you know it doesn't

1046
00:45:55,140 --> 00:45:52,210
change anything but I thought well at

1047
00:45:56,849 --> 00:45:55,150
least he said that so that's fine what

1048
00:45:59,310 --> 00:45:56,859
he was talking to me he seemed sincere

1049
00:46:02,490 --> 00:45:59,320
to me well that's what I was getting at

1050
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:02,500
by hearing you say that isn't that the

1051
00:46:07,070 --> 00:46:05,050
art of the deal for a disinformation

1052
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:07,080
agent for a counterintelligence

1053
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:10,510
professional to gain your trust and find

1054
00:46:16,890 --> 00:46:13,450
your weakness and maybe he was striking

1055
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:16,900
right at it I suppose but you know what

1056
00:46:20,310 --> 00:46:18,160
so what I mean what am I going to do

1057
00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:20,320
about it besides whether he's sorry or

1058
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:21,790
not really makes no difference that the

1059
00:46:25,790 --> 00:46:23,680
deal is done the milk is spilled Paul

1060
00:46:29,220 --> 00:46:25,800
bennewitz was affected very badly by it

1061
00:46:31,020 --> 00:46:29,230
and I hasten to add and people say this

1062
00:46:33,630 --> 00:46:31,030
all the time he was driven crazy by the

1063
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:33,640
Air Force no he wasn't he was helped

1064
00:46:36,990 --> 00:46:35,650
along he was already well on the way

1065
00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:37,000
there before the Air Force even got

1066
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:40,990
involved so it's not like they plucked

1067
00:46:44,250 --> 00:46:42,160
him out of nowhere and started making

1068
00:46:45,870 --> 00:46:44,260
him paranoid he was paranoid before he

1069
00:46:49,970 --> 00:46:45,880
even talked to the Air Force and I

1070
00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:49,980
learned this from a UFO researcher a

1071
00:46:55,650 --> 00:46:52,990
Leonard not Leonard Stringfield who's

1072
00:47:00,000 --> 00:46:55,660
the the much older guy that does

1073
00:47:01,290 --> 00:47:00,010
abduction regressions oh I can't

1074
00:47:05,609 --> 00:47:01,300
remember his name something wrong with

1075
00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:05,619
me anyway he talked to Paul at least a

1076
00:47:09,630 --> 00:47:08,020
few months maybe a year before he even

1077
00:47:11,550 --> 00:47:09,640
called the Air Force and he said that

1078
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:11,560
when he came to the door to talk to him

1079
00:47:15,090 --> 00:47:13,359
he came to the bennewitz came to the

1080
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:15,100
door with a rifle and a pistol and said

1081
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:17,050
getting here the aliens are coming it's

1082
00:47:21,630 --> 00:47:19,690
like whoa and this like I said I will

1083
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:21,640
emphasize this is before he even met

1084
00:47:28,050 --> 00:47:25,090
Dodi as far as I can tell and see and

1085
00:47:30,780 --> 00:47:28,060
this is where and I know that Richard

1086
00:47:34,310 --> 00:47:30,790
said something very similar during our

1087
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:34,320
conversation it doesn't excuse any

1088
00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:36,490
perspective that's right there is no

1089
00:47:42,750 --> 00:47:39,790
excuse for that and at some point you

1090
00:47:43,590 --> 00:47:42,760
would think that Dodi or somebody else

1091
00:47:46,410 --> 00:47:43,600
would go you know what this guy's

1092
00:47:49,890 --> 00:47:46,420
unstable we're taking advantage of

1093
00:47:51,690 --> 00:47:49,900
somebody that is is you know doesn't

1094
00:47:54,900 --> 00:47:51,700
have their feet on the ground and that's

1095
00:47:56,730 --> 00:47:54,910
cool but instead they looked at it like

1096
00:47:59,460 --> 00:47:56,740
okay here's a guy that's unstable we can

1097
00:48:02,280 --> 00:47:59,470
take advantage of this and that's where

1098
00:48:04,140 --> 00:48:02,290
I think the ethics lines are crossed I

1099
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:04,150
don't think they said here's a guy

1100
00:48:07,230 --> 00:48:05,440
that's unstable we could take advantage

1101
00:48:10,140 --> 00:48:07,240
of it that I don't really think that

1102
00:48:11,339 --> 00:48:10,150
entered into it what it was was he has

1103
00:48:14,819 --> 00:48:11,349
figured stuff out

1104
00:48:17,339 --> 00:48:14,829
he sort of can see what we're doing on

1105
00:48:20,010 --> 00:48:17,349
the base and he's sort of getting an

1106
00:48:22,319 --> 00:48:20,020
idea about what's going on now we could

1107
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:22,329
tell him to cease and desist and be a

1108
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:23,890
good American which he was he was in the

1109
00:48:27,089 --> 00:48:25,510
Coast Guard in World War two he was as

1110
00:48:31,170 --> 00:48:27,099
far as I could tell a fairly patriotic

1111
00:48:33,539 --> 00:48:31,180
they actually played on that but the but

1112
00:48:35,849 --> 00:48:33,549
the fact was that he was figuring things

1113
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:35,859
out and they had just put in you know

1114
00:48:40,410 --> 00:48:37,930
years months whatever of research and

1115
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:40,420
money and everything effort into

1116
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:43,210
creating these you know radio burst

1117
00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:44,650
signals and a few other things that he

1118
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:47,049
was seeing thinking that had something

1119
00:48:50,970 --> 00:48:48,880
to do with aliens and it was just their

1120
00:48:52,260 --> 00:48:50,980
project so instead of telling him to

1121
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:52,270
stop they thought well let's figure out

1122
00:48:57,660 --> 00:48:55,210
how he's doing it one to control who

1123
00:48:59,069 --> 00:48:57,670
he's talking to about it and three find

1124
00:49:01,230 --> 00:48:59,079
out who's trying to talk to him to

1125
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:01,240
figure out which foreign you know

1126
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:03,609
agencies are trying to get through him

1127
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,290
and through the UFO community to find

1128
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:07,359
out national security secrets they

1129
00:49:10,410 --> 00:49:09,250
figured it was more useful to talk to

1130
00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:10,420
him and keep him in their confidence

1131
00:49:14,430 --> 00:49:11,920
than it was just tell him to cut it out

1132
00:49:16,859 --> 00:49:14,440
now after a while when he started

1133
00:49:18,450 --> 00:49:16,869
getting more and more unstable they just

1134
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:18,460
you know I guess Dodie and others just

1135
00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:20,290
figured well look we're still it's still

1136
00:49:24,770 --> 00:49:22,030
useful to do what we're doing so we'll

1137
00:49:27,420 --> 00:49:24,780
just let him continue the way he is and

1138
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:27,430
I think they gave him one piece of

1139
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:29,290
disinformation through Bill Moore and

1140
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:32,650
Bill told me I told Paul to take it with

1141
00:49:36,539 --> 00:49:35,200
a grain of salt and not to not to take

1142
00:49:38,339 --> 00:49:36,549
it too seriously and he said well

1143
00:49:40,260 --> 00:49:38,349
bennewitz was called the aquarius

1144
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:40,270
document and he said he locked it in his

1145
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:43,930
safe at work and at Thunder Scientific

1146
00:49:48,839 --> 00:49:47,170
and never referred to it again which I

1147
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:48,849
suppose is something but the thing is it

1148
00:49:52,380 --> 00:49:50,319
affected I'm sure it affected its

1149
00:49:54,089 --> 00:49:52,390
thinking you know just like everything

1150
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:54,099
else that was of course him he'd come up

1151
00:49:57,390 --> 00:49:55,690
with stuff and say well this is going on

1152
00:49:58,980 --> 00:49:57,400
and dodi whoever would say well that's

1153
00:50:01,470 --> 00:49:58,990
very interesting Paul please tell us

1154
00:50:03,150 --> 00:50:01,480
more and then they started according to

1155
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:03,160
game valdez and a couple of the people I

1156
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:05,200
talked to that at his place somebody was

1157
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:05,650
beaming

1158
00:50:11,609 --> 00:50:09,490
like pictures of alien-looking things

1159
00:50:15,779 --> 00:50:11,619
and dinosaurs and all kinds of wacky

1160
00:50:18,029 --> 00:50:15,789
stuff into his into his house on it was

1161
00:50:20,279 --> 00:50:18,039
listening equipment on a little CR

1162
00:50:24,509 --> 00:50:20,289
careful cathode ray screen that he had

1163
00:50:28,140 --> 00:50:24,519
in his in his lab just to just to freak

1164
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:28,150
him out he actually keep his attention

1165
00:50:32,220 --> 00:50:29,680
away from the base and more on this

1166
00:50:34,769 --> 00:50:32,230
weird on this noise that made no

1167
00:50:38,039 --> 00:50:34,779
difference and going into his house and

1168
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:38,049
moving his furniture around yeah that's

1169
00:50:42,210 --> 00:50:39,970
what Dodi claimed that they did oh yeah

1170
00:50:44,970 --> 00:50:42,220
no I did not hear that from anybody else

1171
00:50:46,650 --> 00:50:44,980
that I can remember I think maybe Gabe

1172
00:50:48,089 --> 00:50:46,660
Valdez told me that see one thing I

1173
00:50:49,829 --> 00:50:48,099
people you know they make a mistake

1174
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:49,839
saying you know you trusted Odie and

1175
00:50:55,140 --> 00:50:51,609
Bill more and a few other people and

1176
00:50:57,029 --> 00:50:55,150
spooks with all it's like no I I tried

1177
00:50:59,220 --> 00:50:57,039
to check as many places I could and if I

1178
00:51:00,930 --> 00:50:59,230
it was only coming from one source or a

1179
00:51:02,759 --> 00:51:00,940
couple sources I couldn't be sure him I

1180
00:51:04,859 --> 00:51:02,769
would try to say that in the book unless

1181
00:51:06,420 --> 00:51:04,869
was inconsequential like who did you

1182
00:51:08,759 --> 00:51:06,430
know he went to the store that day or

1183
00:51:11,099 --> 00:51:08,769
something but important stuff like you

1184
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:11,109
know he said bennewitz said he injection

1185
00:51:14,579 --> 00:51:12,400
marks on his arms and he didn't know

1186
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:14,589
where they came from that's really scary

1187
00:51:21,630 --> 00:51:16,720
Dodi claimed to know nothing about this

1188
00:51:24,089 --> 00:51:21,640
but Moore said he saw them I think Gabe

1189
00:51:25,979 --> 00:51:24,099
said he saw him the thing is if I heard

1190
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:25,989
it from UFO researchers and law

1191
00:51:31,019 --> 00:51:28,720
enforcement like Gabe outside of the UFO

1192
00:51:33,269 --> 00:51:31,029
outside of the government I tend to

1193
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:33,279
think that it had some weight weight you

1194
00:51:40,259 --> 00:51:34,390
know because it wasn't just somebody

1195
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:40,269
that had some bad that had a motivation

1196
00:51:45,779 --> 00:51:43,200
to try and you know lead me to lie to me

1197
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:45,789
so I tried to treat it that way if I

1198
00:51:49,499 --> 00:51:47,529
could get people inside and outside the

1199
00:51:52,410 --> 00:51:49,509
situation both telling me the same thing

1200
00:51:54,509 --> 00:51:52,420
then I wouldn't really reference it but

1201
00:51:56,910 --> 00:51:54,519
if only one or two people told me I

1202
00:51:59,400 --> 00:51:56,920
tried to say you know allegedly or this

1203
00:52:00,450 --> 00:51:59,410
person said or whatever to put the story

1204
00:52:02,460 --> 00:52:00,460
together because you know the whole

1205
00:52:04,259 --> 00:52:02,470
story can't be told by one person or

1206
00:52:06,420 --> 00:52:04,269
even a couple people I had to talk to

1207
00:52:08,759 --> 00:52:06,430
you know ten fifteen twenty people to

1208
00:52:10,349 --> 00:52:08,769
put this story together in addition to

1209
00:52:12,180 --> 00:52:10,359
you know looking through news clippings

1210
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:12,190
and you know and government documents

1211
00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:14,319
and all the other things that I I look

1212
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:16,420
through to put the story together yeah

1213
00:52:19,590 --> 00:52:18,400
and well we'll continue this

1214
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:19,600
conversation

1215
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:21,250
right after the short break and there's

1216
00:52:27,260 --> 00:52:24,130
one other part about this because we can

1217
00:52:30,660 --> 00:52:27,270
talk about Paul bennewitz the bill more

1218
00:52:32,490 --> 00:52:30,670
part of it is something that gets even

1219
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:32,500
stinkier and we'll talk about that but

1220
00:52:37,950 --> 00:52:35,170
then they're you know dealing with Paul

1221
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:37,960
bennewitz as one thing but but Doty

1222
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:40,960
pulled in Linda Moulton Howe and brought

1223
00:52:47,070 --> 00:52:43,690
her on to Kirkland too as well and and

1224
00:52:48,780 --> 00:52:47,080
continued the disinformation and will do

1225
00:52:50,940 --> 00:52:48,790
all of that when we come back after this

1226
00:52:53,310 --> 00:52:50,950
short break our guest tonight Greg

1227
00:52:55,290 --> 00:52:53,320
Bishop this is fade to black I'm yours

1228
00:52:58,760 --> 00:52:55,300
Jimmy Church we'll be right back after

1229
00:52:58,770 --> 00:53:37,280
[Music]

1230
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:39,420
welcome back fade to black our guest

1231
00:53:45,180 --> 00:53:43,090
tonight Greg Bishop years in the making

1232
00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:45,190
we finally got it done

1233
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:48,310
and we're talking about Richard Doty and

1234
00:53:55,980 --> 00:53:53,010
Mirage men and very few people out there

1235
00:53:57,630 --> 00:53:55,990
Greg have interfaced directly with

1236
00:54:03,540 --> 00:53:57,640
Richard I know you haven't talked to him

1237
00:54:06,570 --> 00:54:03,550
in a very long time but his his his

1238
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:06,580
position in the UFO community and and

1239
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:09,760
the damage that was done with Bill more

1240
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:12,400
I I don't think it can really be

1241
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:15,490
measured today and we can always talk

1242
00:54:22,620 --> 00:54:18,310
about Paul bennewitz and but there it

1243
00:54:25,380 --> 00:54:22,630
went much further than Paul and it was

1244
00:54:28,650 --> 00:54:25,390
it was very effective to the point where

1245
00:54:32,100 --> 00:54:28,660
they even brought in Linda Moulton Howe

1246
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:32,110
brought her onto the base into an office

1247
00:54:38,490 --> 00:54:34,890
and started to show her documents and

1248
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:38,500
documents that were fictitious and or

1249
00:54:43,590 --> 00:54:40,480
you know maybe some of them were real

1250
00:54:45,540 --> 00:54:43,600
that's part of disinformation but you

1251
00:54:49,130 --> 00:54:45,550
know bringing in a leading researcher

1252
00:54:52,350 --> 00:54:49,140
like that is a pretty bold move isn't it

1253
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:52,360
yeah it is I think that they wanted to

1254
00:54:57,570 --> 00:54:54,370
figure out you know who was talking to

1255
00:55:02,490 --> 00:54:57,580
whom so you know and all in the

1256
00:55:06,270 --> 00:55:02,500
furtherance of a you know a intelligence

1257
00:55:08,970 --> 00:55:06,280
operation counterintelligence and there

1258
00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:08,980
I've talked to people who have been in

1259
00:55:16,110 --> 00:55:12,420
Air Force intelligence after Doty and

1260
00:55:18,810 --> 00:55:16,120
they said that the the Doty and other

1261
00:55:22,830 --> 00:55:18,820
people in the in the who were working on

1262
00:55:25,230 --> 00:55:22,840
the operation actually to their mind

1263
00:55:30,060 --> 00:55:25,240
broke a lot of laws about interacting

1264
00:55:31,770 --> 00:55:30,070
with with American citizens and things

1265
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:31,780
you're not supposed to do to or with

1266
00:55:37,980 --> 00:55:35,130
American citizens and those things were

1267
00:55:39,690 --> 00:55:37,990
codified before that happened and we're

1268
00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:39,700
strengthened afterwards partially I

1269
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:42,100
believe because of what happened at Paul

1270
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:46,960
bennewitz the the atmosphere at that

1271
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:48,690
time

1272
00:55:55,099 --> 00:55:52,890
doing her her investigative journalism

1273
00:55:57,859 --> 00:55:55,109
into cattle mutilations and of course

1274
00:56:02,839 --> 00:55:57,869
the UFO subject and she was right in the

1275
00:56:05,620 --> 00:56:02,849
middle of production with HBO at the

1276
00:56:10,010 --> 00:56:05,630
time and things were getting ready to

1277
00:56:14,210 --> 00:56:10,020
really blow up and and they knew that

1278
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:14,220
and and Bill Moore doing the things that

1279
00:56:18,859 --> 00:56:16,170
he was doing I'm not even so sure now

1280
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:18,869
that anything that Bill Moore had

1281
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:21,599
revealed and that includes going back to

1282
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:25,290
Roswell and the things that Richard Doty

1283
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:27,569
said on this program about Roswell

1284
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:32,250
pretty alarming things that they they

1285
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,200
really looked at Linda as as a tool for

1286
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:39,839
this disinformation and this was going

1287
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:42,930
on inside of the UFO community in real

1288
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:45,119
time it was an active program and to

1289
00:56:50,380 --> 00:56:47,250
think that things like this couldn't go

1290
00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:50,390
on well they actually did didn't they

1291
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:52,680
well to some extent but the thing is

1292
00:56:56,450 --> 00:56:54,930
that you know oh god I've been talking

1293
00:56:57,770 --> 00:56:56,460
about this for so many years and I don't

1294
00:56:59,180 --> 00:56:57,780
know how many times I say things and

1295
00:57:04,880 --> 00:56:59,190
people don't believe me so I kind of

1296
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:04,890
give up but what happened was Moore was

1297
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:07,170
contacted because they thought he could

1298
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:10,410
be useful by basically reporting on

1299
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:12,210
people in the UFO community and what

1300
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:14,569
they were talking about mainly because

1301
00:57:19,460 --> 00:57:17,130
mainly only because they wanted to know

1302
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:19,470
how it affected national security is

1303
00:57:24,050 --> 00:57:22,650
anybody looking at anything that can

1304
00:57:25,940 --> 00:57:24,060
give a hint to the Russians of the

1305
00:57:28,609 --> 00:57:25,950
Chinese or whoever about what we're

1306
00:57:32,569 --> 00:57:28,619
doing so what they told bill Moore was

1307
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:32,579
and it was if you tell us what people

1308
00:57:37,730 --> 00:57:35,280
are talking about and who's telling you

1309
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:37,740
who did what to whom as far as you can

1310
00:57:42,620 --> 00:57:40,730
tell we will give you documents

1311
00:57:45,319 --> 00:57:42,630
documents having to do with the UFO

1312
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:45,329
subject and they gave him tons of them

1313
00:57:53,059 --> 00:57:50,400
reams of them I have some of them and as

1314
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:53,069
far as he could tell one a lot of it was

1315
00:57:58,520 --> 00:57:56,010
disinfo or close to it and a lot of it

1316
00:58:02,540 --> 00:57:58,530
was just useless and he said I said well

1317
00:58:04,220 --> 00:58:02,550
so after all this you know I'm still

1318
00:58:05,870 --> 00:58:04,230
with him so this is why I get kind of

1319
00:58:07,370 --> 00:58:05,880
like Bill Moore is evil and he made you

1320
00:58:10,850 --> 00:58:07,380
know he drove Paul bennewitz nuts II

1321
00:58:13,130 --> 00:58:10,860
know he had a deal and it he said it's

1322
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:13,140
like when you're when somebody comes up

1323
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:14,640
to you and says hey why don't you watch

1324
00:58:17,930 --> 00:58:16,380
this corner and it tell us anybody comes

1325
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,940
by and then suddenly like a week later

1326
00:58:22,070 --> 00:58:19,680
you're dumping dead bodies you're like I

1327
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:22,080
didn't sign up for this

1328
00:58:26,180 --> 00:58:24,690
not that he was dumping dead bodies but

1329
00:58:28,310 --> 00:58:26,190
he said look you know I had this

1330
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:28,320
cut-and-dried deal and then suddenly I

1331
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:32,210
was doing other things but such as

1332
00:58:36,020 --> 00:58:34,410
watching Paul bennewitz and making you

1333
00:58:37,550 --> 00:58:36,030
know seeing what he was doing and seeing

1334
00:58:43,370 --> 00:58:37,560
who he was talking to and talking to him

1335
00:58:45,290 --> 00:58:43,380
himself so he was complicit in it but

1336
00:58:47,180 --> 00:58:45,300
I'm not exactly sure if he knew exactly

1337
00:58:49,820 --> 00:58:47,190
what was going on he did see Paul

1338
00:58:51,710 --> 00:58:49,830
getting worse and worse and worse and as

1339
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:51,720
far you know and Bill's my friend I've

1340
00:59:00,380 --> 00:58:56,220
known him for notum since 1987 and he's

1341
00:59:03,770 --> 00:59:00,390
never lied to me yet that I can tell but

1342
00:59:05,870 --> 00:59:03,780
what he said was I warned Paul over and

1343
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:05,880
over to top stop taking this stuff so

1344
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:08,490
seriously back off of it it's affecting

1345
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:09,810
your health it's affecting your business

1346
00:59:15,530 --> 00:59:12,690
it's affecting your family just slow

1347
00:59:17,210 --> 00:59:15,540
down he could see it happening he knew

1348
00:59:19,460 --> 00:59:17,220
worse you know he knew it was being

1349
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:19,470
encouraged but he couldn't tell Paul

1350
00:59:24,700 --> 00:59:21,330
that but he would he could tell him was

1351
00:59:27,260 --> 00:59:24,710
like you know slow down dude you know

1352
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:27,270
and he said Paul really didn't listen to

1353
00:59:30,290 --> 00:59:28,770
him he was very obsessed there was

1354
00:59:31,490 --> 00:59:30,300
nothing you could do about it and there

1355
00:59:33,740 --> 00:59:31,500
was nothing bill could do about it

1356
00:59:35,150 --> 00:59:33,750
because he wasn't supposed to he

1357
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:35,160
couldn't say anything his hands were

1358
00:59:40,730 --> 00:59:38,400
tied so he did what he could like I said

1359
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:40,740
after all this it does not make it right

1360
00:59:45,230 --> 00:59:43,410
it doesn't make it morally right but

1361
00:59:48,190 --> 00:59:45,240
there are there are circumstances in

1362
00:59:50,750 --> 00:59:48,200
here that people don't know about and

1363
00:59:52,250 --> 00:59:50,760
it's still wrong he says he regrets it

1364
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:52,260
he wouldn't do the same way over again

1365
00:59:59,210 --> 00:59:53,370
and he felt like he was a little bit

1366
01:00:01,370 --> 00:59:59,220
arrogant and and he was but it was it

1367
01:00:03,490 --> 01:00:01,380
was a continuum of different

1368
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:03,500
circumstances that were going on and

1369
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:06,480
it's better to have a perspective of it

1370
01:00:11,900 --> 01:00:08,850
see what was going on and why this could

1371
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:11,910
have happened I don't think it's

1372
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:14,010
happening now I don't know if it ever

1373
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:15,570
happened again if it did nobody's

1374
01:00:20,510 --> 01:00:17,520
admitted to it

1375
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:20,520
but you know it's that that that's the

1376
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:22,170
history of it from from his perspective

1377
01:00:25,370 --> 01:00:24,090
or from my perspective and all and I

1378
01:00:27,020 --> 01:00:25,380
said at the end of this I mean did you

1379
01:00:28,580 --> 01:00:27,030
ever get anything that was useful that

1380
01:00:30,410 --> 01:00:28,590
you know broke it open for you he said

1381
01:00:32,210 --> 01:00:30,420
no and that's the terrible part it

1382
01:00:33,710 --> 01:00:32,220
seemed like it was a complete waste of

1383
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:33,720
time

1384
01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:35,730
and the other part of this is that I

1385
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:37,260
said this is the book not only was he

1386
01:00:40,220 --> 01:00:38,640
doing this stuff with bennewitz he was

1387
01:00:42,980 --> 01:00:40,230
also doing things like getting letters

1388
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:42,990
from Russia from UFO researchers

1389
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:45,330
quote-unquote that just said you know hi

1390
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:46,290
my name is so-and-so

1391
01:00:49,580 --> 01:00:47,730
I would really like to know about your

1392
01:00:51,350 --> 01:00:49,590
research we have some really cool stuff

1393
01:00:53,150 --> 01:00:51,360
here in Russia I'd like detect you talk

1394
01:00:55,790 --> 01:00:53,160
to you about have you heard of you know

1395
01:00:59,570 --> 01:00:55,800
the Voronezh case or whatever but the

1396
01:01:01,160 --> 01:00:59,580
thing was what he had to do was take

1397
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:01,170
these letters from Russia when they came

1398
01:01:06,650 --> 01:01:04,770
from certain redresses and call a

1399
01:01:09,790 --> 01:01:06,660
certain number and it was a different

1400
01:01:13,070 --> 01:01:09,800
number every time and read the postcard

1401
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:13,080
word-for-word all spelling errors all

1402
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:17,250
the punctuation everything then put the

1403
01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:19,050
letter in another envelope and take it

1404
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:21,150
to another PO take it to a post office a

1405
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:23,040
specific post office sometimes out in

1406
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:24,480
the middle of nowhere and mail it on

1407
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:27,450
from there so he was doing all kinds of

1408
01:01:31,790 --> 01:01:30,090
you know somebody had stolen a bunch of

1409
01:01:33,980 --> 01:01:31,800
money from the Air Force and and and

1410
01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:33,990
went AWOL so they actually had him run

1411
01:01:37,700 --> 01:01:35,700
through bars in a certain area of LA

1412
01:01:39,590 --> 01:01:37,710
looking asking for the guy that was

1413
01:01:41,810 --> 01:01:39,600
another thing he did so it wasn't just

1414
01:01:43,370 --> 01:01:41,820
you know he went to drive Paul bennewitz

1415
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:43,380
nuts it's like no there was a lot of

1416
01:01:47,510 --> 01:01:45,570
stuff going on at the same time and he

1417
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:47,520
says he never took a penny for it and I

1418
01:01:50,990 --> 01:01:49,050
still believe I mean because when he was

1419
01:01:53,060 --> 01:01:51,000
doing this he was he wasn't living in

1420
01:01:54,590 --> 01:01:53,070
the lap of luxury he never has as far as

1421
01:01:57,050 --> 01:01:54,600
Ivan as long as I've known him you're

1422
01:02:00,590 --> 01:01:57,060
talking about still more about more yeah

1423
01:02:03,140 --> 01:02:00,600
yeah now this is a lot more complicated

1424
01:02:04,910 --> 01:02:03,150
story than most people you know get in

1425
01:02:06,140 --> 01:02:04,920
you know give it credit or get into

1426
01:02:10,790 --> 01:02:06,150
because it's a lot easier to pass

1427
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:10,800
judgment and then move on there's Dodi

1428
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:15,530
has said two conflicting statements one

1429
01:02:19,730 --> 01:02:17,520
and this is on the record

1430
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:19,740
that he walked around with the briefcase

1431
01:02:25,580 --> 01:02:21,810
and a duffel bag full of cash and he was

1432
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:25,590
doling out money everywhere and then he

1433
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:28,650
then says the exact opposite that was

1434
01:02:32,570 --> 01:02:30,090
Bill Moore he was giving

1435
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:32,580
gas money you know that there wasn't any

1436
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:36,770
any real influence there with bill now

1437
01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:40,650
it's it's too you can't have it both

1438
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:43,200
ways I'm talking about Dodie one in two

1439
01:02:49,310 --> 01:02:45,690
polarized statements like that but on

1440
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:49,320
the flip side why would Bill Moore sell

1441
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:53,280
his soul for gas money that doesn't make

1442
01:02:56,750 --> 01:02:54,570
any sense and you just said it yourself

1443
01:02:59,660 --> 01:02:56,760
right there that he was even doing this

1444
01:03:02,900 --> 01:02:59,670
at some at some points for nothing why

1445
01:03:05,150 --> 01:03:02,910
why do that at all points for nothing by

1446
01:03:07,220 --> 01:03:05,160
it by his account to me because he

1447
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:07,230
wanted to find out what was going on

1448
01:03:10,070 --> 01:03:08,610
with the government and UFOs and he

1449
01:03:11,300 --> 01:03:10,080
figured okay if I cooperated one

1450
01:03:13,250 --> 01:03:11,310
handshake to the other and maybe they'll

1451
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:13,260
give me some clue as to what's going on

1452
01:03:18,590 --> 01:03:16,770
here I I you know i I've got it in here

1453
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:18,600
that nobody else has and I'm going to

1454
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:20,370
exploit it that that was his idea

1455
01:03:24,730 --> 01:03:22,290
and what happened was he never really

1456
01:03:28,220 --> 01:03:24,740
found out anything that useful

1457
01:03:33,610 --> 01:03:28,230
okay and then there's another part of

1458
01:03:36,110 --> 01:03:33,620
this that I find strange and that is

1459
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:36,120
putting Roswell aside and we're going to

1460
01:03:40,580 --> 01:03:37,680
come back to that subject here in a

1461
01:03:43,790 --> 01:03:40,590
second when it comes to Dodi puttin

1462
01:03:47,390 --> 01:03:43,800
Roswell aside everything around bill

1463
01:03:51,140 --> 01:03:47,400
Moore I don't know what part of it is

1464
01:03:53,780 --> 01:03:51,150
real anymore such as the the mj-12

1465
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:53,790
documents and the story behind that and

1466
01:03:58,490 --> 01:03:56,010
the way that him in shandur a and of

1467
01:04:01,970 --> 01:03:58,500
course Stan Friedman was pulled into

1468
01:04:04,910 --> 01:04:01,980
this too as well again probably part of

1469
01:04:08,660 --> 01:04:04,920
the disinformation but what part of that

1470
01:04:12,140 --> 01:04:08,670
is is real to this day and did Bill know

1471
01:04:15,020 --> 01:04:12,150
that the mj-12 documents were all a hoax

1472
01:04:18,260 --> 01:04:15,030
and did he just write along with it

1473
01:04:20,180 --> 01:04:18,270
for fame and money and and didn't care

1474
01:04:25,010 --> 01:04:20,190
about the effects on the public were

1475
01:04:28,850 --> 01:04:25,020
today mj-12 was still talked about in in

1476
01:04:33,380 --> 01:04:28,860
in 2019 isn't there some culpability or

1477
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:33,390
responsibility involved well he believed

1478
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:35,010
it when it came out as he said as far as

1479
01:04:39,410 --> 01:04:37,530
he could tell it was real I don't think

1480
01:04:41,060 --> 01:04:39,420
he was in on it I think the story is as

1481
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:41,070
what I've never heard anybody tell a

1482
01:04:43,609 --> 01:04:41,930
different story

1483
01:04:45,499 --> 01:04:43,619
I've never heard him

1484
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:45,509
say this came from somewhere else or you

1485
01:04:48,799 --> 01:04:46,650
know some different story as to how

1486
01:04:50,509 --> 01:04:48,809
Jamie Shandra got that roll of film with

1487
01:04:55,579 --> 01:04:50,519
the original Eisenhower briefing

1488
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:55,589
document on it so I believe him and I

1489
01:04:59,989 --> 01:04:57,210
believe that he believed that it was

1490
01:05:02,089 --> 01:04:59,999
real until he looked at over a few years

1491
01:05:04,069 --> 01:05:02,099
he got a lot of documents there's a book

1492
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:04,079
called the mj-12 documents that he put

1493
01:05:10,339 --> 01:05:07,910
out with Jamie in which they basically

1494
01:05:14,420 --> 01:05:10,349
said that most of the documents they got

1495
01:05:16,910 --> 01:05:14,430
were either false or inconclusive a few

1496
01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:16,920
of them were said possibly real and the

1497
01:05:20,469 --> 01:05:18,839
Eisenhower briefing document which is

1498
01:05:23,059 --> 01:05:20,479
the one we're talking about here I think

1499
01:05:26,299 --> 01:05:23,069
with the list of all the mj-12 members

1500
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:26,309
he said that was probably real as time

1501
01:05:30,469 --> 01:05:28,650
went on for whatever reason at this

1502
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:30,479
point now he thinks it's it was false

1503
01:05:34,339 --> 01:05:32,880
and it was just planted to mess with him

1504
01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:34,349
and lead people astray and see how

1505
01:05:39,950 --> 01:05:37,049
people reacted and you know see who was

1506
01:05:42,410 --> 01:05:39,960
interested and where these threads lead

1507
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:42,420
it was basically chumming the water I

1508
01:05:46,370 --> 01:05:43,890
think to see who was interested in what

1509
01:05:48,170 --> 01:05:46,380
would happen but bill did not know that

1510
01:05:50,959 --> 01:05:48,180
at the time and I'm pretty sure he

1511
01:05:52,969 --> 01:05:50,969
didn't I I don't know why people think

1512
01:05:54,229 --> 01:05:52,979
that you know what's this thing about

1513
01:05:55,999 --> 01:05:54,239
well I don't know what to trust anything

1514
01:05:58,759 --> 01:05:56,009
that comes out of its mouth anyway it's

1515
01:06:00,789 --> 01:05:58,769
like no he was being played he didn't

1516
01:06:03,469 --> 01:06:00,799
know it at the time he had a suspicion

1517
01:06:05,450 --> 01:06:03,479
but he didn't know it for sure I mean it

1518
01:06:06,620 --> 01:06:05,460
was you know if you're a researcher and

1519
01:06:08,209 --> 01:06:06,630
somebody says look keep an eye on a

1520
01:06:10,339 --> 01:06:08,219
couple people and you get documents that

1521
01:06:12,349 --> 01:06:10,349
nobody ever got that show that the US

1522
01:06:13,549 --> 01:06:12,359
government knows about UFOs and is known

1523
01:06:16,969 --> 01:06:13,559
about it for a long time

1524
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:16,979
most people go sure all right until they

1525
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:18,960
you know some things get worse and worse

1526
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:21,210
and worse and you finally say I don't

1527
01:06:26,539 --> 01:06:23,130
know if I signed up for this but you're

1528
01:06:29,749 --> 01:06:26,549
still getting the documents something I

1529
01:06:32,900 --> 01:06:29,759
have suggested for years I've never

1530
01:06:35,569 --> 01:06:32,910
really bent on this but that the source

1531
01:06:39,019 --> 01:06:35,579
of those documents was probably Doty and

1532
01:06:41,900 --> 01:06:39,029
the same team that was creating the fake

1533
01:06:43,819 --> 01:06:41,910
documents at Kirtland that presented

1534
01:06:47,539 --> 01:06:43,829
stuff to bennewitz and to Linda Moulton

1535
01:06:49,849 --> 01:06:47,549
Howe were the same creators that did the

1536
01:06:52,749 --> 01:06:49,859
mj-12 documents that sent them to build

1537
01:06:54,709 --> 01:06:52,759
more and and Jane they're created in

1538
01:06:56,059 --> 01:06:54,719
Albuquerque they could have be created

1539
01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:56,069
in Washington or at a think-tank

1540
01:06:59,850 --> 01:06:57,280
somewhere whatever

1541
01:07:00,270 --> 01:06:59,860
right well that's if that's exactly my

1542
01:07:02,220 --> 01:07:00,280
point

1543
01:07:05,010 --> 01:07:02,230
and they're just passed along that's

1544
01:07:06,750 --> 01:07:05,020
right the mj-12 document that was sent

1545
01:07:08,790 --> 01:07:06,760
to Jaime Shandra the Brys in our

1546
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:08,800
briefing document that had a postmark

1547
01:07:14,100 --> 01:07:11,200
from Albuquerque that's right yeah

1548
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:14,110
yeah and it was sent to him in Burbank

1549
01:07:22,170 --> 01:07:20,770
so is shandur a still alive I believe so

1550
01:07:24,330 --> 01:07:22,180
I haven't heard anything from him for

1551
01:07:26,610 --> 01:07:24,340
years yeah I've tried to chase him down

1552
01:07:29,370 --> 01:07:26,620
and you know you know we're in Burbank

1553
01:07:31,110 --> 01:07:29,380
and he doesn't live in Burbank anywhere

1554
01:07:34,380 --> 01:07:31,120
he left a long time ago okay

1555
01:07:38,790 --> 01:07:34,390
like in 2000 I think but going back to

1556
01:07:43,380 --> 01:07:38,800
this it seems that Bill Moore and and

1557
01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:43,390
Dodie Kirkland Albuquerque that was the

1558
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:46,480
source of the all of that disinformation

1559
01:07:54,690 --> 01:07:48,880
all of the fake documents everything

1560
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:54,700
came from that same circle and no why

1561
01:07:58,740 --> 01:07:56,770
not some some of it came from other

1562
01:08:00,690 --> 01:07:58,750
other sources and other places for

1563
01:08:02,340 --> 01:08:00,700
instance one time bill was told get on a

1564
01:08:04,380 --> 01:08:02,350
plane go to this place meet this person

1565
01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:04,390
at the airport they went to a hotel and

1566
01:08:08,010 --> 01:08:06,310
whoever was there pulled out this

1567
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:08,020
envelope and this was like in the East

1568
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:09,970
somewhere rolled out an envelope and

1569
01:08:13,170 --> 01:08:11,680
said and this has been written up and

1570
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:13,180
he's talked about it pulled out an

1571
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:15,850
envelope put it and said you can do

1572
01:08:19,110 --> 01:08:16,960
whatever you want with these documents

1573
01:08:21,690 --> 01:08:19,120
and you've got 20 minutes or whatever

1574
01:08:24,450 --> 01:08:21,700
and I'm just gonna wait outside

1575
01:08:25,860 --> 01:08:24,460
so he he I think some cases he took

1576
01:08:28,170 --> 01:08:25,870
pictures of him in some cases he was

1577
01:08:31,079 --> 01:08:28,180
only allowed to take notes I don't know

1578
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:31,089
what but he was given the runaround for

1579
01:08:36,690 --> 01:08:32,799
a lot of these documents and dodi was

1580
01:08:38,130 --> 01:08:36,700
sometimes maybe even a you know more

1581
01:08:39,780 --> 01:08:38,140
than more than half the time not

1582
01:08:41,190 --> 01:08:39,790
involved in fact I don't know how much

1583
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:41,200
dough D was involved with giving

1584
01:08:45,930 --> 01:08:43,290
documents directly to Bill at all I

1585
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:45,940
don't know if that ever happened but

1586
01:08:51,780 --> 01:08:47,890
yeah the source of them some of them

1587
01:08:53,610 --> 01:08:51,790
were from from from AFOs I probably fos

1588
01:08:55,230 --> 01:08:53,620
I at Kirtland it's not gonna say that

1589
01:08:57,440 --> 01:08:55,240
this is for me off oh sorry Kirtland

1590
01:09:00,210 --> 01:08:57,450
it's just gonna have a postmark

1591
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:00,220
but yeah it's he got them in different

1592
01:09:03,870 --> 01:09:01,690
ways some were mailed some were showed

1593
01:09:06,329 --> 01:09:03,880
to him some were you know so it wasn't

1594
01:09:07,890 --> 01:09:06,339
like you know Dodi just kept handing or

1595
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:07,900
somebody Kirtland kept handing him

1596
01:09:10,140 --> 01:09:09,730
documents that's not how it works well

1597
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:10,150
no

1598
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:14,170
certainly suggesting that the the the

1599
01:09:20,610 --> 01:09:16,210
parties that are in play here are always

1600
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:20,620
the same ones and the and I'm talking

1601
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:23,530
about shandur a bill more and and of

1602
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:27,130
course Dodie and the Office of Special

1603
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:29,530
Investigations with the Air Force but

1604
01:09:37,260 --> 01:09:33,610
the story about the delivery and flying

1605
01:09:39,660 --> 01:09:37,270
to and going to the motel and and and

1606
01:09:42,150 --> 01:09:39,670
handed the envelope and he took pictures

1607
01:09:43,770 --> 01:09:42,160
he wasn't allowed oh yeah that that came

1608
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:43,780
from Bill and there's you know who the

1609
01:09:47,310 --> 01:09:45,370
hell else is gonna tell me that so I

1610
01:09:48,420 --> 01:09:47,320
gotta take his word for I'm so you're

1611
01:09:51,780 --> 01:09:48,430
right I don't know

1612
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:51,790
yeah and my but my point even back when

1613
01:09:57,210 --> 01:09:55,330
I had read that story and the full

1614
01:09:58,980 --> 01:09:57,220
account of all of it Greg

1615
01:10:01,460 --> 01:09:58,990
I just went okay you know what this is

1616
01:10:04,140 --> 01:10:01,470
Hollywood scripted made up stuff that

1617
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:04,150
nothing at that you know what I mean

1618
01:10:10,860 --> 01:10:07,210
there wasn't anything at at a motel this

1619
01:10:13,650 --> 01:10:10,870
is just however he got the documents

1620
01:10:16,350 --> 01:10:13,660
this is the story behind it to

1621
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:16,360
sensationalize it that there wasn't this

1622
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:19,810
cloak-and-dagger thing all over the

1623
01:10:26,070 --> 01:10:23,410
United States say that till years later

1624
01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:26,080
I don't think he you know until until

1625
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:28,000
after he'd seen the documents digested

1626
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:30,310
them and talked about him a little bit I

1627
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:31,600
don't even know if he told these stories

1628
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:35,290
yet Oh in the mj-12 document yes where

1629
01:10:38,370 --> 01:10:36,880
they examine the documents said

1630
01:10:39,810 --> 01:10:38,380
somewhere in our some might be good

1631
01:10:40,980 --> 01:10:39,820
somewhere it wasn't like you put out

1632
01:10:42,150 --> 01:10:40,990
this thing and said this is all great

1633
01:10:43,620 --> 01:10:42,160
stuff and you should you should all

1634
01:10:46,620 --> 01:10:43,630
believe this and this is incredible like

1635
01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:46,630
a bill Cooper to me it sounded like

1636
01:10:50,100 --> 01:10:48,490
exactly what he said it was I got a

1637
01:10:52,290 --> 01:10:50,110
bunch of stuff I didn't know if was real

1638
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:52,300
or not I checked up on it some of it

1639
01:10:57,150 --> 01:10:54,610
checked out most of it didn't we don't

1640
01:10:59,280 --> 01:10:57,160
really don't know now and and that's

1641
01:11:02,010 --> 01:10:59,290
that's the bill more side of it I

1642
01:11:04,580 --> 01:11:02,020
understand that you guys are friends but

1643
01:11:08,850 --> 01:11:04,590
yeah but now hindsight here we are in

1644
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:08,860
2019 and we look back into the nineties

1645
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:11,890
and into the 80s with all of this crazy

1646
01:11:18,390 --> 01:11:15,760
I mean the most insane Hollywood stuff

1647
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:18,400
that you could ever imagine how much if

1648
01:11:22,890 --> 01:11:20,890
it actually was true how much of it do

1649
01:11:23,569 --> 01:11:22,900
you really believe or was it just all

1650
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:23,579
made up

1651
01:11:34,609 --> 01:11:32,479
I don't think I think the documents for

1652
01:11:36,290 --> 01:11:34,619
a large part were made up but as far as

1653
01:11:38,450 --> 01:11:36,300
I can tell bill hasn't lied to me

1654
01:11:40,609 --> 01:11:38,460
Dody I don't know I don't know him that

1655
01:11:41,660 --> 01:11:40,619
well and even some of the stuff he told

1656
01:11:43,819 --> 01:11:41,670
me in the interview I knew immediately

1657
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:43,829
wasn't true but that's fine you know

1658
01:11:47,959 --> 01:11:46,170
what I've got a you've got a you know

1659
01:11:49,459 --> 01:11:47,969
you play the game we could get nothing

1660
01:11:52,399 --> 01:11:49,469
which is the title of the first chapter

1661
01:11:57,260 --> 01:11:52,409
in one of my books that's exactly it and

1662
01:12:00,290 --> 01:11:57,270
when when bill did his famous speech

1663
01:12:04,819 --> 01:12:00,300
right in Las Vegas and and walked away

1664
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:04,829
from the UFO community and I don't know

1665
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:06,449
where bill is today I've heard stories

1666
01:12:13,580 --> 01:12:08,730
you can maybe tell us where he is today

1667
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:13,590
but how does Bill feel now I mean is

1668
01:12:18,770 --> 01:12:17,040
there a point where maybe he should step

1669
01:12:21,260 --> 01:12:18,780
forward and go you know what I need to

1670
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:21,270
talk about this now and and let's put

1671
01:12:26,750 --> 01:12:23,489
all of this clean what where is he today

1672
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:26,760
where's his mind today not thinking

1673
01:12:30,049 --> 01:12:28,170
about any of this at all whatsoever

1674
01:12:33,950 --> 01:12:30,059
anymore in fact when I bring it up when

1675
01:12:35,359 --> 01:12:33,960
I do see him every once in a while he

1676
01:12:41,839 --> 01:12:35,369
doesn't want to talk about it which is

1677
01:12:44,030 --> 01:12:41,849
fine sick of it yeah yeah does he does

1678
01:12:46,819 --> 01:12:44,040
he have responsibilities is he is he

1679
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:46,829
okay with saying you know I I shouldn't

1680
01:12:52,189 --> 01:12:49,050
have done it I regret it it was it was a

1681
01:12:58,280 --> 01:12:52,199
big mistake or is he just sweeping it

1682
01:13:00,830 --> 01:12:58,290
under the rug I don't think he's happy

1683
01:13:03,770 --> 01:13:00,840
about it and I think he regrets it but I

1684
01:13:04,370 --> 01:13:03,780
also I am I really don't want to speak

1685
01:13:07,129 --> 01:13:04,380
for him

1686
01:13:08,899 --> 01:13:07,139
I really don't right do you think you

1687
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:08,909
know I mean because no matter what

1688
01:13:12,740 --> 01:13:11,130
people say I've said stuff in interviews

1689
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:12,750
a hundred times and then people come

1690
01:13:16,399 --> 01:13:14,010
back and tell me something that I've

1691
01:13:18,410 --> 01:13:16,409
already said and contradicted a hundred

1692
01:13:20,629 --> 01:13:18,420
times which is why I usually talk about

1693
01:13:23,359 --> 01:13:20,639
it and I can see why bill doesn't like

1694
01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:23,369
to anymore but yes I mean he's he he

1695
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:28,800
regrets parts of it and other parts not

1696
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:30,570
I mean where people are hurt obviously

1697
01:13:35,140 --> 01:13:32,159
and the guy has a conscience of course

1698
01:13:37,699 --> 01:13:35,150
he feels bad about what happened to Paul

1699
01:13:39,979 --> 01:13:37,709
and what you know and

1700
01:13:43,219 --> 01:13:39,989
to some people in the UFO community but

1701
01:13:44,779 --> 01:13:43,229
he you know he doesn't regret being able

1702
01:13:47,089 --> 01:13:44,789
to find out what he did and he doesn't

1703
01:13:48,500 --> 01:13:47,099
regret being involved in something that

1704
01:13:49,969 --> 01:13:48,510
was kind of exciting for a while I mean

1705
01:13:50,929 --> 01:13:49,979
anybody involved in that would have said

1706
01:13:52,729 --> 01:13:50,939
this is kind of exciting

1707
01:13:57,699 --> 01:13:52,739
the other thing people have to realize

1708
01:13:59,959 --> 01:13:57,709
is that the Benowitz thing was 1% of a

1709
01:14:01,819 --> 01:13:59,969
giant giant counterintelligence

1710
01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:01,829
operation because people in the UFO

1711
01:14:06,229 --> 01:14:03,360
community look at it's like oh this big

1712
01:14:08,810 --> 01:14:06,239
thing in did you lead UFOs researchers

1713
01:14:11,959 --> 01:14:08,820
astray it's like no no it was a tiny

1714
01:14:14,179 --> 01:14:11,969
tiny tiny little detail it we think it's

1715
01:14:17,390 --> 01:14:14,189
big because we you know we see it in all

1716
01:14:20,029 --> 01:14:17,400
of its its history but there's there is

1717
01:14:22,399 --> 01:14:20,039
99% of that story that's never been told

1718
01:14:25,069 --> 01:14:22,409
I don't know it I mean I'm not saying

1719
01:14:26,660 --> 01:14:25,079
that but this you know more Morris said

1720
01:14:29,060 --> 01:14:26,670
this other people have said this it's

1721
01:14:31,759 --> 01:14:29,070
like the the it wasn't even that

1722
01:14:34,219 --> 01:14:31,769
important in the in the whole operation

1723
01:14:36,469 --> 01:14:34,229
but it was an integral part of the

1724
01:14:39,949 --> 01:14:36,479
clockwork of the operation against the

1725
01:14:44,949 --> 01:14:39,959
Russians that that that is probably true

1726
01:14:49,219 --> 01:14:44,959
the other part of it is the impact of

1727
01:14:51,259 --> 01:14:49,229
the mj-12 documents and its continuing

1728
01:14:57,199 --> 01:14:51,269
impact on this community cannot be

1729
01:14:58,969 --> 01:14:57,209
measured it cannot and to this day we we

1730
01:15:02,479 --> 01:14:58,979
are we're discussing it right now Greg

1731
01:15:05,929 --> 01:15:02,489
right it was and and serpo you throw

1732
01:15:07,310 --> 01:15:05,939
serpo into the mix and its impact on

1733
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:07,320
this community and there are people

1734
01:15:15,169 --> 01:15:09,449
today that still talk about serpo as

1735
01:15:18,859 --> 01:15:15,179
being real and if if what Dody is said

1736
01:15:21,739 --> 01:15:18,869
and and who the aviary was and who was

1737
01:15:23,449 --> 01:15:21,749
at the top of the aviary the area was

1738
01:15:25,399 --> 01:15:23,459
not official it was just a bunch of

1739
01:15:26,660 --> 01:15:25,409
people interested in UFO stuff some of

1740
01:15:28,339 --> 01:15:26,670
whom were in the government and some of

1741
01:15:31,250 --> 01:15:28,349
them weren't people think aviary was

1742
01:15:33,589 --> 01:15:31,260
some official UFO thing it wasn't it was

1743
01:15:35,239 --> 01:15:33,599
a bunch of people that that wanted to

1744
01:15:36,259 --> 01:15:35,249
find out what Bill wanted to find out

1745
01:15:37,219 --> 01:15:36,269
except some of them were in the

1746
01:15:40,219 --> 01:15:37,229
government and they thought they could

1747
01:15:42,410 --> 01:15:40,229
use that as leverage to try and find out

1748
01:15:43,910 --> 01:15:42,420
more about the UFO subject how much the

1749
01:15:45,979 --> 01:15:43,920
government knew about it and they ended

1750
01:15:48,649 --> 01:15:45,989
up finding out nothing more than than

1751
01:15:51,470 --> 01:15:48,659
you and I so as far as I can tell was it

1752
01:15:53,300 --> 01:15:51,480
just a big letdown yeah a very was was

1753
01:15:57,020 --> 01:15:53,310
just away from shandur a and more to

1754
01:15:58,220 --> 01:15:57,030
refer to a group of people so they could

1755
01:16:01,010 --> 01:15:58,230
talk about them on the phone like you

1756
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:01,020
know the owl is doing this and Seagal is

1757
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:03,210
doing this and you know and so people

1758
01:16:05,530 --> 01:16:04,260
wouldn't know what their names are it

1759
01:16:09,260 --> 01:16:05,540
wasn't you know it's like

1760
01:16:10,820 --> 01:16:09,270
cloak-and-dagger spy stuff play but it

1761
01:16:12,440 --> 01:16:10,830
still was it was serving a purpose they

1762
01:16:14,450 --> 01:16:12,450
wanted to be able to talk with these

1763
01:16:15,650 --> 01:16:14,460
people and talk to them and communicate

1764
01:16:18,440 --> 01:16:15,660
with each other because they were on the

1765
01:16:20,090 --> 01:16:18,450
outside they could access things that

1766
01:16:24,470 --> 01:16:20,100
people and the government couldn't and

1767
01:16:27,530 --> 01:16:24,480
vice versa do you think that the entire

1768
01:16:31,940 --> 01:16:27,540
serpo program and I'm talking about the

1769
01:16:35,180 --> 01:16:31,950
website the disclosures the the constant

1770
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:35,190
waiting for another release and I was on

1771
01:16:39,620 --> 01:16:36,930
that website every single day for years

1772
01:16:43,820 --> 01:16:39,630
man like you know like everybody got the

1773
01:16:47,540 --> 01:16:43,830
emails I got alright exactly that that

1774
01:16:50,210 --> 01:16:47,550
that entire thing what was it a

1775
01:16:53,540 --> 01:16:50,220
government operation do you think it was

1776
01:17:00,940 --> 01:16:53,550
like a CIA project Mockingbird website

1777
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:00,950
or or was it just just made up know what

1778
01:17:05,420 --> 01:17:03,570
it was just made up but it was made up

1779
01:17:08,090 --> 01:17:05,430
for a purpose it was made up I think to

1780
01:17:10,490 --> 01:17:08,100
pass messages and the thing is that the

1781
01:17:13,220 --> 01:17:10,500
you can tell this this is you know kind

1782
01:17:15,140 --> 01:17:13,230
of kind of how I guessed and had some

1783
01:17:17,540 --> 01:17:15,150
conversations with more and other people

1784
01:17:19,490 --> 01:17:17,550
I kind of guessed what was going on and

1785
01:17:21,460 --> 01:17:19,500
they did because the original guy I

1786
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:21,470
don't think I'm getting this story wrong

1787
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:23,610
Victor Martinez who was my substitute

1788
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:25,410
teacher in the LA area was getting all

1789
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:26,970
this information and pumping it back out

1790
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:28,650
on its website and sending out emails to

1791
01:17:31,070 --> 01:17:29,730
a lot of people I don't know how many

1792
01:17:34,100 --> 01:17:31,080
hundred people were on that email list

1793
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:34,110
right and it's a certain point he was

1794
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:35,520
getting these emails and he was starting

1795
01:17:38,900 --> 01:17:36,890
to correct the grammar and the

1796
01:17:43,729 --> 01:17:38,910
punctuation and everything they said

1797
01:17:45,470 --> 01:17:43,739
don't do that leave it the way it is and

1798
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:45,480
he still did it so they they got rid of

1799
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:47,370
him and this is how I remember got rid

1800
01:17:53,450 --> 01:17:49,650
of him and Bill Ryan got on it I became

1801
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:53,460
a spokesman but if you think about that

1802
01:17:56,540 --> 01:17:54,960
it's like why would they care if

1803
01:17:58,550 --> 01:17:56,550
somebody was changing the language or

1804
01:18:01,209 --> 01:17:58,560
the punctuation or whatever it's because

1805
01:18:03,620 --> 01:18:01,219
something was encoded in those messages

1806
01:18:04,940 --> 01:18:03,630
there's there's no other to me there's

1807
01:18:05,330 --> 01:18:04,950
no other answer for that something

1808
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:05,340
wasn't

1809
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:07,170
and those messages for somebody to read

1810
01:18:12,650 --> 01:18:10,890
and you know if you extrapolate this you

1811
01:18:14,630 --> 01:18:12,660
think about it's like well if you can

1812
01:18:16,370 --> 01:18:14,640
figure out what's in those messages and

1813
01:18:18,710 --> 01:18:16,380
you start doing something about it

1814
01:18:20,210 --> 01:18:18,720
whether it's true or not you know who

1815
01:18:22,850 --> 01:18:20,220
figured out how to do the messages

1816
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:22,860
figure out what the code is and if you

1817
01:18:26,210 --> 01:18:24,480
figure out the who knows who that what

1818
01:18:27,620 --> 01:18:26,220
the code is what they're interested in

1819
01:18:30,020 --> 01:18:27,630
and what they're doing about it you can

1820
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:30,030
figure out who is making noise about

1821
01:18:32,210 --> 01:18:31,290
something they're not supposed to are

1822
01:18:33,890 --> 01:18:32,220
not supposed to know

1823
01:18:35,270 --> 01:18:33,900
well this email came from this person

1824
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:35,280
and they're sending it to you know this

1825
01:18:39,020 --> 01:18:37,650
person in Iran and saying that the u.s.

1826
01:18:40,910 --> 01:18:39,030
is working on so-and-so because he

1827
01:18:43,100 --> 01:18:40,920
figured out from this message right and

1828
01:18:45,260 --> 01:18:43,110
the message are probably complete BS or

1829
01:18:47,810 --> 01:18:45,270
at least mostly BS like referring to

1830
01:18:49,790 --> 01:18:47,820
some this this is just you know this all

1831
01:18:52,610 --> 01:18:49,800
guesswork on my part but referring to

1832
01:18:54,530 --> 01:18:52,620
something that is going on that people

1833
01:18:56,630 --> 01:18:54,540
know about but not that much or

1834
01:18:58,940 --> 01:18:56,640
intelligence people know about but want

1835
01:19:00,680 --> 01:18:58,950
to know more so if they if they do want

1836
01:19:02,660 --> 01:19:00,690
to know more about it they're you know

1837
01:19:04,370 --> 01:19:02,670
they create some chatter and they say

1838
01:19:06,170 --> 01:19:04,380
it's whatever whatever program it's like

1839
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:06,180
okay we know that one's fake so we know

1840
01:19:10,100 --> 01:19:08,250
you saw that serpo message or somebody

1841
01:19:13,310 --> 01:19:10,110
passed along that circle message to you

1842
01:19:17,060 --> 01:19:13,320
and you knew how to decode it I read

1843
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:17,070
just like you right I read over and over

1844
01:19:23,300 --> 01:19:20,370
again and and serpo got really big I

1845
01:19:25,100 --> 01:19:23,310
mean that was yeah I was just insane the

1846
01:19:27,530 --> 01:19:25,110
amount of information that was there

1847
01:19:29,090 --> 01:19:27,540
yeah went on coast and Dodie appeared

1848
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:29,100
for the only other time he's ever been

1849
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:30,930
on coast besides when he was on with me

1850
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:36,000
and I I read it and I I i almost got

1851
01:19:39,620 --> 01:19:37,890
nervous like i thought somebody was

1852
01:19:41,900 --> 01:19:39,630
gonna kick down my front door because I

1853
01:19:45,890 --> 01:19:41,910
was on that website and I thought that

1854
01:19:48,170 --> 01:19:45,900
the information was just so so huge

1855
01:19:51,980 --> 01:19:48,180
right and I was trying to figure it out

1856
01:19:54,410 --> 01:19:51,990
and it was so complex and then and I've

1857
01:19:57,890 --> 01:19:54,420
got a head towards a break and then one

1858
01:20:01,040 --> 01:19:57,900
day Greg I went you know what this is

1859
01:20:04,130 --> 01:20:01,050
science fiction right this is this is

1860
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:04,140
this is creation alright I don't think

1861
01:20:07,820 --> 01:20:06,210
it has anything to do with the you if I

1862
01:20:09,890 --> 01:20:07,830
don't think that there was anything to

1863
01:20:14,210 --> 01:20:09,900
write this is my own personal assessment

1864
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:14,220
and I had this weight you know taken off

1865
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:16,890
of me because I thought it was so huge

1866
01:20:21,229 --> 01:20:18,239
and so big

1867
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:21,239
and and the real deal and then one day I

1868
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:23,850
just went you know what no I think it's

1869
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:26,850
science fiction yeah that's that or my

1870
01:20:30,950 --> 01:20:29,280
mindset determines exactly how you deal

1871
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:30,960
with stuff and if you don't if you

1872
01:20:37,430 --> 01:20:33,120
decide to be zen-like and not panic

1873
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:37,440
about stuff so many vistas open up my

1874
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:41,040
fist is opened up that day it really did

1875
01:20:44,959 --> 01:20:42,960
let's let's take a break right here I

1876
01:20:46,220 --> 01:20:44,969
guess tonight is Greg Bishop but we're

1877
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:46,230
gonna continue what a great conversation

1878
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:48,930
all of this when we come back after this

1879
01:20:53,060 --> 01:20:50,730
short break this is fade to black I'm

1880
01:20:56,630 --> 01:20:53,070
yours Jimmy Church I'm the game changer

1881
01:20:59,300 --> 01:20:56,640
network and kg RA the planet Twitter is

1882
01:21:01,530 --> 01:20:59,310
blowing up I'm watching you guys we'll

1883
01:21:17,870 --> 01:21:01,540
be right back stay with us

1884
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:17,880
[Music]

1885
01:21:23,570 --> 01:21:19,770
welcome back fade to black I'm your host

1886
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:23,580
Jimmy church tonight Greg Bishop what a

1887
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:29,010
conversation and I'm okay I'm gonna go

1888
01:21:33,050 --> 01:21:31,290
here I'm gonna go here next Greg there's

1889
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:33,060
a couple of I can already see that we're

1890
01:21:39,050 --> 01:21:37,290
gonna go into overtime and let's just do

1891
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:39,060
this

1892
01:21:44,980 --> 01:21:40,770
I want to go back to something that

1893
01:21:50,150 --> 01:21:44,990
Dodie had said on this program he said

1894
01:21:53,410 --> 01:21:50,160
that he was taken into a room with a

1895
01:21:57,710 --> 01:21:53,420
bunch of other recruits into this

1896
01:21:59,960 --> 01:21:57,720
airforce agent disinfo program there was

1897
01:22:02,420 --> 01:21:59,970
I forget how many he said was in the

1898
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:02,430
room with him but it was a roomful 4050

1899
01:22:07,820 --> 01:22:04,530
other agents and he guessed that there

1900
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:07,830
was about 200 in the United States that

1901
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:10,530
were involved in this program along with

1902
01:22:19,630 --> 01:22:14,970
him and that they were shown roswell

1903
01:22:24,250 --> 01:22:19,640
film footage of the crash retrieval of

1904
01:22:26,420 --> 01:22:24,260
the ETS and were given the full

1905
01:22:31,550 --> 01:22:26,430
debriefing on Roswell

1906
01:22:33,890 --> 01:22:31,560
and that Roswell was real now that's

1907
01:22:37,850 --> 01:22:33,900
what he said on this program did he ever

1908
01:22:39,980 --> 01:22:37,860
talk to you about Roswell and if he did

1909
01:22:42,770 --> 01:22:39,990
was it the same as what he presented

1910
01:22:47,540 --> 01:22:42,780
here in this program and is he telling

1911
01:22:49,610 --> 01:22:47,550
us the truth if you ask any time is Dodi

1912
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:49,620
telling us the truth you're already just

1913
01:22:55,820 --> 01:22:52,530
lost I know right okay did he discuss

1914
01:22:58,100 --> 01:22:55,830
Roswell with you no he talked about

1915
01:22:59,840 --> 01:22:58,110
working at area 51 which he claims he

1916
01:23:02,960 --> 01:22:59,850
did which I don't know if that happened

1917
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:02,970
or not but he says he did and said he

1918
01:23:06,830 --> 01:23:04,890
saw stuff that Bob Lazar saw at least

1919
01:23:08,210 --> 01:23:06,840
earlier versions of it I don't know how

1920
01:23:10,790 --> 01:23:08,220
to check that out there's no way for me

1921
01:23:13,460 --> 01:23:10,800
to check out what he said about Roswell

1922
01:23:15,250 --> 01:23:13,470
there's no no no way to cross-check it

1923
01:23:17,300 --> 01:23:15,260
unless somebody else comes up and says I

1924
01:23:18,710 --> 01:23:17,310
was in the room with Dodie and this is

1925
01:23:20,330 --> 01:23:18,720
what we saw this is what we said and he

1926
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:20,340
says the same thing independently well

1927
01:23:24,290 --> 01:23:21,690
then they could be in cahoots with each

1928
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:24,300
other but that would be a step so you

1929
01:23:29,690 --> 01:23:26,570
know like you'd say whatever he wants

1930
01:23:31,790 --> 01:23:29,700
but if it's you play the game you get

1931
01:23:33,530 --> 01:23:31,800
nothing if it's something useful that he

1932
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:33,540
says that's useful to you and seems to

1933
01:23:36,980 --> 01:23:35,130
make sense and you can want to follow

1934
01:23:38,900 --> 01:23:36,990
that thread that's great

1935
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:38,910
and if you choose to think it's all lies

1936
01:23:43,460 --> 01:23:40,770
or whatever that's great too you don't

1937
01:23:46,100 --> 01:23:43,470
sound you don't sound surprised in what

1938
01:23:49,130 --> 01:23:46,110
I just said oh no I'm not surprised at

1939
01:23:50,630 --> 01:23:49,140
all I mean I think you know I don't you

1940
01:23:52,700 --> 01:23:50,640
know I don't dislike the man I think

1941
01:23:54,230 --> 01:23:52,710
he's a fascinating character

1942
01:23:56,030 --> 01:23:54,240
I'm sorry he doesn't talk to me anymore

1943
01:23:57,710 --> 01:23:56,040
you got he got mad when I said something

1944
01:24:00,350 --> 01:23:57,720
about serpo being what we just talked

1945
01:24:01,580 --> 01:24:00,360
about and said he didn't want to talk to

1946
01:24:03,500 --> 01:24:01,590
me anymore which is you know it's

1947
01:24:05,540 --> 01:24:03,510
unfortunate but you know it's fine I

1948
01:24:09,890 --> 01:24:05,550
don't I don't feel bad I hope I didn't

1949
01:24:14,630 --> 01:24:09,900
insult him or anything but it's you know

1950
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:14,640
you can't you can't take anything he

1951
01:24:19,610 --> 01:24:18,090
says really that seriously unless it's

1952
01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:19,620
something you think is interesting and

1953
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:21,360
you can follow up on and there's

1954
01:24:25,070 --> 01:24:22,800
certainly things that he says that are

1955
01:24:26,750 --> 01:24:25,080
interesting that you can follow up on so

1956
01:24:28,730 --> 01:24:26,760
and I can't think of any right now I did

1957
01:24:30,230 --> 01:24:28,740
a bunch for the book and some of them

1958
01:24:33,530 --> 01:24:30,240
panned out and some of them didn't and

1959
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:33,540
some of them I didn't care so you know I

1960
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:35,370
mean he'd tell me something and then you

1961
01:24:40,730 --> 01:24:37,650
know Leonard not Leonard Stringfield but

1962
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:40,740
like another guy from the NSA that he I

1963
01:24:44,780 --> 01:24:42,330
don't think ever met would tell me the

1964
01:24:45,350 --> 01:24:44,790
same thing and then like you know tom

1965
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:45,360
dooley

1966
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:50,130
NSA or tom adams the offer for the

1967
01:24:52,820 --> 01:24:51,570
cattle mutilation the researcher he

1968
01:24:54,650 --> 01:24:52,830
might tell me the same thing it's like

1969
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:54,660
okay there's something i can hook onto

1970
01:24:59,840 --> 01:24:56,880
here but the point is when I was talking

1971
01:25:01,700 --> 01:24:59,850
to him I listened to everything and he

1972
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:01,710
wouldn't let me take note to record it

1973
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:03,450
so what I did is I drove back to my

1974
01:25:09,770 --> 01:25:05,930
hotel really quick and wrote it all down

1975
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:09,780
but the point is here that you listen to

1976
01:25:13,310 --> 01:25:11,250
it all and if there's something

1977
01:25:15,290 --> 01:25:13,320
interesting in there you follow up on it

1978
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:15,300
but if you start immediately going oh my

1979
01:25:19,340 --> 01:25:16,650
god is that true or is that false oh

1980
01:25:21,140 --> 01:25:19,350
it's like you you your emotions take

1981
01:25:23,690 --> 01:25:21,150
over and you're already filtering and

1982
01:25:25,370 --> 01:25:23,700
you're lost you kind of have to be Zen

1983
01:25:26,870 --> 01:25:25,380
about it and kind of like you know I'm

1984
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:26,880
not gonna pass judgment let me just

1985
01:25:30,740 --> 01:25:28,890
listen to everything and not care about

1986
01:25:32,480 --> 01:25:30,750
what's coming out of its mouth just

1987
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:32,490
listen to it all because there's some

1988
01:25:36,250 --> 01:25:34,410
useful stuff in here I don't know where

1989
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:36,260
it is yet but it's in there

1990
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:41,130
what and and speaking about this the you

1991
01:25:45,530 --> 01:25:44,730
know the government influence and the

1992
01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:45,540
UFO side

1993
01:25:50,630 --> 01:25:47,520
certainly were in the middle of it right

1994
01:25:55,220 --> 01:25:50,640
now and what has gone on since December

1995
01:26:01,190 --> 01:25:55,230
of 2017 but the New York Times and and

1996
01:26:03,380 --> 01:26:01,200
so forth how much of this do we trust is

1997
01:26:08,510 --> 01:26:03,390
the Pentagon right now suddenly our

1998
01:26:11,150 --> 01:26:08,520
friend I don't think so you know the

1999
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:11,160
thing is it's I think when this first

2000
01:26:15,230 --> 01:26:13,290
started happening I put something up on

2001
01:26:17,510 --> 01:26:15,240
my website or on my Facebook page or

2002
01:26:19,370 --> 01:26:17,520
something for the show and I said beware

2003
01:26:20,900 --> 01:26:19,380
of messages when you agree with

2004
01:26:22,700 --> 01:26:20,910
everything somebody's saying if

2005
01:26:25,220 --> 01:26:22,710
somebody's just saying everything you

2006
01:26:28,610 --> 01:26:25,230
want to hear that's a warning sign I

2007
01:26:31,310 --> 01:26:28,620
think not a warning sign to not listen

2008
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:31,320
or that you know they're they're totally

2009
01:26:35,300 --> 01:26:32,850
telling the truth or lying or whatever

2010
01:26:36,890 --> 01:26:35,310
the point is that you are all your

2011
01:26:39,260 --> 01:26:36,900
buttons are being pushed if all your

2012
01:26:40,550 --> 01:26:39,270
buttons are being pushed either the most

2013
01:26:43,670 --> 01:26:40,560
wonderful thing in the world is

2014
01:26:45,650 --> 01:26:43,680
happening disclosure or somebody's doing

2015
01:26:47,870 --> 01:26:45,660
something for a specific purpose which

2016
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:47,880
may not be what you think it is I mean

2017
01:26:51,500 --> 01:26:50,250
that the the fallout from it is what we

2018
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:51,510
were just talking about at the beginning

2019
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:53,370
of the show more people take it

2020
01:26:56,810 --> 01:26:54,810
seriously journalist journalists aren't

2021
01:26:58,460 --> 01:26:56,820
laughing at it so much academics and

2022
01:27:01,640 --> 01:26:58,470
scientists are taking it more seriously

2023
01:27:03,860 --> 01:27:01,650
that's great I think that's wonderful

2024
01:27:06,620 --> 01:27:03,870
but I don't you know I don't think this

2025
01:27:09,710 --> 01:27:06,630
is like the be-all end-all of disclosure

2026
01:27:11,420 --> 01:27:09,720
I don't think that at all but you know

2027
01:27:13,130 --> 01:27:11,430
like I said I'm not sitting here going

2028
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:13,140
as I throughs I not true is that true is

2029
01:27:18,830 --> 01:27:16,170
not true you know I just can't operate

2030
01:27:20,270 --> 01:27:18,840
that way all right you know I get I get

2031
01:27:21,950 --> 01:27:20,280
burned out I'm getting burned out just

2032
01:27:24,380 --> 01:27:21,960
listening what what people are saying

2033
01:27:25,940 --> 01:27:24,390
online I had to back off of it I I'm

2034
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:25,950
kinda at the point where I don't care if

2035
01:27:31,850 --> 01:27:28,530
it's true or not I'm just listening I'm

2036
01:27:34,940 --> 01:27:31,860
at the same point and and and you're

2037
01:27:38,090 --> 01:27:34,950
absolutely right you have to there is no

2038
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:38,100
other way to deal with this but to

2039
01:27:43,250 --> 01:27:41,250
listen to everything one thing you have

2040
01:27:44,540 --> 01:27:43,260
to and if there's a grain of something

2041
01:27:45,950 --> 01:27:44,550
there that resonates with you and

2042
01:27:49,310 --> 01:27:45,960
something that can help you take things

2043
01:27:52,250 --> 01:27:49,320
further then then great if you don't if

2044
01:27:55,370 --> 01:27:52,260
you don't absorb any of it great too as

2045
01:27:58,529 --> 01:27:55,380
well but but the other part of it which

2046
01:28:01,889 --> 01:27:58,539
I think is is is very dangerous

2047
01:28:05,129 --> 01:28:01,899
that there is a reason for the timing I

2048
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:05,139
don't know what that reason is Greg but

2049
01:28:12,750 --> 01:28:09,489
it seems to be every it's like at every

2050
01:28:17,459 --> 01:28:12,760
turn every mainstream outlet has got

2051
01:28:21,059 --> 01:28:17,469
some UFOs story today why is that

2052
01:28:23,729 --> 01:28:21,069
happening what why now are they trying

2053
01:28:25,979 --> 01:28:23,739
to get out in front of something that

2054
01:28:28,229 --> 01:28:25,989
they can't control and they know that

2055
01:28:30,989 --> 01:28:28,239
something is coming and they need to

2056
01:28:34,109 --> 01:28:30,999
acclimate the world to this subject is

2057
01:28:36,419 --> 01:28:34,119
it that you know I I'm not so sure why

2058
01:28:38,879 --> 01:28:36,429
maybe yeah well that's my question to

2059
01:28:41,429 --> 01:28:38,889
you why do you think the timing of this

2060
01:28:44,939 --> 01:28:41,439
is now you've been doing this for a very

2061
01:28:47,909 --> 01:28:44,949
very long time and you know it's never

2062
01:28:49,949 --> 01:28:47,919
been like this before you know yeah and

2063
01:28:51,689 --> 01:28:49,959
I know you I don't know I don't know the

2064
01:28:54,629 --> 01:28:51,699
reason for it really Jimmy I really

2065
01:28:58,369 --> 01:28:54,639
don't there's a lot of ideas yours was

2066
01:29:02,279 --> 01:29:00,659
disinformation especially against other

2067
01:29:04,109 --> 01:29:02,289
governments you know and I see some of

2068
01:29:06,059 --> 01:29:04,119
this stuff I'm thinking you know oh

2069
01:29:07,739 --> 01:29:06,069
these things are flying by our ships we

2070
01:29:09,629 --> 01:29:07,749
don't know what they are you know maybe

2071
01:29:11,549 --> 01:29:09,639
somebody in China are like we you know

2072
01:29:15,929 --> 01:29:11,559
exactly what that is you guys have that

2073
01:29:19,679 --> 01:29:15,939
oh no because it's I think somebody I

2074
01:29:24,719 --> 01:29:19,689
was talking to that was related or you

2075
01:29:27,719 --> 01:29:24,729
know within with TSA or at least think

2076
01:29:29,189 --> 01:29:27,729
they are whatever they said if some if

2077
01:29:32,189 --> 01:29:29,199
this is something that somebody knows

2078
01:29:33,179 --> 01:29:32,199
how to do right now if those things that

2079
01:29:34,949 --> 01:29:33,189
are flying around that we're flying

2080
01:29:36,419 --> 01:29:34,959
around the Nimitz and around the carrier

2081
01:29:40,169 --> 01:29:36,429
groups in the east and the East Coast

2082
01:29:43,139 --> 01:29:40,179
and in the Persian Gulf if that's all

2083
01:29:46,259 --> 01:29:43,149
true whoever's controlling that they

2084
01:29:51,059 --> 01:29:46,269
don't have to answer to anybody if so if

2085
01:29:53,459 --> 01:29:51,069
that's an earthly technology either one

2086
01:29:55,529 --> 01:29:53,469
it's not an earthly technology and and

2087
01:29:57,270 --> 01:29:55,539
it's some other intelligence doing

2088
01:29:59,609 --> 01:29:57,280
something which is totally possible or

2089
01:30:02,250 --> 01:29:59,619
it is an earthly intelligence and they

2090
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:02,260
are saying we don't have to answer to

2091
01:30:07,799 --> 01:30:04,449
anybody because we can do this in fact

2092
01:30:10,859 --> 01:30:07,809
you know if if we choose to the entire

2093
01:30:12,450 --> 01:30:10,869
world will have no choice except to be

2094
01:30:14,550 --> 01:30:12,460
you know run by whoever has

2095
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:14,560
technology that that's that's basically

2096
01:30:21,959 --> 01:30:16,570
game over technology if somebody has

2097
01:30:23,970 --> 01:30:21,969
that so even the even the idea that

2098
01:30:25,290 --> 01:30:23,980
that's possible can be used for for

2099
01:30:28,380 --> 01:30:25,300
disinfo or propaganda or

2100
01:30:31,110 --> 01:30:28,390
counterintelligence purposes that

2101
01:30:37,260 --> 01:30:31,120
certainly can be what's going on that to

2102
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:37,270
me is scarier than if it's just et I'm

2103
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:38,800
saying that's a possibility and

2104
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:40,330
somebody's listening to say oh that's

2105
01:30:45,750 --> 01:30:41,770
what he says it is he's figured out like

2106
01:30:47,310 --> 01:30:45,760
no that's a possibility and it's one I

2107
01:30:50,370 --> 01:30:47,320
ever really haven't really heard too

2108
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:50,380
much but it's it's a it's an intriguing

2109
01:30:53,580 --> 01:30:52,330
possibility and like yeah yeah and like

2110
01:30:55,709 --> 01:30:53,590
you said it's kind of a frightening

2111
01:30:57,870 --> 01:30:55,719
possibility you know who has that

2112
01:31:02,580 --> 01:30:57,880
technology and I hope it's somebody

2113
01:31:05,790 --> 01:31:02,590
that's friendly to us but maybe not I

2114
01:31:07,500 --> 01:31:05,800
don't know I have no idea the fact is if

2115
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:07,510
it was it was another country that was

2116
01:31:11,100 --> 01:31:09,010
doing it and we didn't have the

2117
01:31:12,570 --> 01:31:11,110
technology I don't think anybody would

2118
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:12,580
say anything about it in the press in

2119
01:31:16,020 --> 01:31:13,690
the United States so I think they

2120
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:16,030
figured out either it's something else

2121
01:31:18,930 --> 01:31:17,530
or it's something they want us they want

2122
01:31:22,140 --> 01:31:18,940
people to think that we have control

2123
01:31:23,070 --> 01:31:22,150
over or you know no control over and

2124
01:31:23,490 --> 01:31:23,080
what the hell are we going to do about

2125
01:31:26,070 --> 01:31:23,500
it

2126
01:31:27,870 --> 01:31:26,080
I have no idea and I really don't know

2127
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:27,880
about the timing maybe it has something

2128
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:29,530
to do with you know saber-rattling in

2129
01:31:35,250 --> 01:31:33,489
China and India sending up rockets now

2130
01:31:36,810 --> 01:31:35,260
out of the moon and India and Pakistan

2131
01:31:39,209 --> 01:31:36,820
getting all pissed off at each other and

2132
01:31:41,610 --> 01:31:39,219
they both have nuclear weapons right now

2133
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:41,620
you know saber-rattling with Iran I have

2134
01:31:46,830 --> 01:31:44,530
no idea but you know there's so many

2135
01:31:49,050 --> 01:31:46,840
different scenarios for this to be to

2136
01:31:52,890 --> 01:31:49,060
have to interact interface with this

2137
01:31:55,140 --> 01:31:52,900
phenomenon at this particular time and I

2138
01:31:57,900 --> 01:31:55,150
don't think anybody's got it right yet

2139
01:31:59,910 --> 01:31:57,910
no no guesses are right yet but I think

2140
01:32:01,229 --> 01:31:59,920
that a lot of guesses are right none of

2141
01:32:03,180 --> 01:32:01,239
them at the same time if you know what I

2142
01:32:04,830 --> 01:32:03,190
mean it could be any of those things or

2143
01:32:06,330 --> 01:32:04,840
it could be little bits and pieces of

2144
01:32:10,610 --> 01:32:06,340
all these things put together which

2145
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:10,620
which is what I favor I did a rundown of

2146
01:32:18,930 --> 01:32:15,370
the staff at TSA and yeah where you have

2147
01:32:23,930 --> 01:32:18,940
nine of the twelve staff there are

2148
01:32:30,750 --> 01:32:28,050
counterintelligence agents and some

2149
01:32:34,649 --> 01:32:30,760
affiliation of some kind with the

2150
01:32:35,820 --> 01:32:34,659
Department of Defense exactly yeah a lot

2151
01:32:38,310 --> 01:32:35,830
of people notice that right off the bat

2152
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:38,320
they're like whoa wait a second is it

2153
01:32:44,370 --> 01:32:42,370
well did you do oh wait a second yeah I

2154
01:32:45,990 --> 01:32:44,380
did right away I just said wow these

2155
01:32:48,030 --> 01:32:46,000
people it's like a lot of the same

2156
01:32:49,830 --> 01:32:48,040
players that were now the same players

2157
01:32:52,350 --> 01:32:49,840
but the same ideas and some of the same

2158
01:32:54,030 --> 01:32:52,360
players that were involved at least how

2159
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:54,040
put off he was he was in the aviary I

2160
01:32:58,530 --> 01:32:57,130
think pretty sure these people have been

2161
01:33:00,930 --> 01:32:58,540
trying to figure out what this thing is

2162
01:33:02,939 --> 01:33:00,940
for a long time and I think some of the

2163
01:33:04,950 --> 01:33:02,949
people in the group think they're gonna

2164
01:33:07,740 --> 01:33:04,960
find out what what the UFO thing is

2165
01:33:09,870 --> 01:33:07,750
finally and some of them are using it

2166
01:33:12,149 --> 01:33:09,880
for you know some intelligence thing and

2167
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:12,159
some of them think that there's

2168
01:33:16,740 --> 01:33:13,570
something exploitable in there where

2169
01:33:18,750 --> 01:33:16,750
they can they can they can make you know

2170
01:33:20,490 --> 01:33:18,760
they can scale the technology or copy

2171
01:33:22,500 --> 01:33:20,500
the technology to something that they

2172
01:33:24,149 --> 01:33:22,510
can that can be used I think there's all

2173
01:33:25,740 --> 01:33:24,159
those ideas and then on top of you know

2174
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:25,750
on top of this all is you know what

2175
01:33:30,689 --> 01:33:27,250
you're suggesting here is they all have

2176
01:33:32,129 --> 01:33:30,699
intelligence backgrounds to I don't know

2177
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:32,139
if that means it's an intelligent

2178
01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:34,570
intelligent operation but that's that

2179
01:33:40,290 --> 01:33:36,250
would certainly be within the foul poles

2180
01:33:43,919 --> 01:33:40,300
yes it would be right there and this is

2181
01:33:46,530 --> 01:33:43,929
this is what is crazy to me if Tom

2182
01:33:49,140 --> 01:33:46,540
DeLonge steps down as CEO because he's

2183
01:33:53,430 --> 01:33:49,150
listed as interim CEO right now right

2184
01:33:55,470 --> 01:33:53,440
yeah yeah and so let's say he's you know

2185
01:33:58,200 --> 01:33:55,480
he steps aside he goes back to blink 182

2186
01:34:02,340 --> 01:33:58,210
or angels on the airwaves and he goes

2187
01:34:07,530 --> 01:34:02,350
back to music and like semi van steps in

2188
01:34:09,660 --> 01:34:07,540
as CEO are we looking at an actual CIA

2189
01:34:11,990 --> 01:34:09,670
front company at that point because

2190
01:34:16,620 --> 01:34:12,000
there isn't anybody else that is staffed

2191
01:34:20,580 --> 01:34:16,630
except for intelligence of personnel it

2192
01:34:24,060 --> 01:34:20,590
is is that a red flag no yeah well of

2193
01:34:25,950 --> 01:34:24,070
course it is but my attitude from the

2194
01:34:27,870 --> 01:34:25,960
beginning has been I am neither for nor

2195
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:27,880
against what they're doing but I am

2196
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:29,610
interested so I'm gonna pay attention

2197
01:34:33,750 --> 01:34:31,810
but I'm not gonna make an assumption

2198
01:34:34,950 --> 01:34:33,760
about things I've been sitting here for

2199
01:34:36,480 --> 01:34:34,960
the last 20 minutes with you making

2200
01:34:40,230 --> 01:34:36,490
assumptions I have

2201
01:34:41,910 --> 01:34:40,240
no idea really what see but I'm gonna

2202
01:34:44,010 --> 01:34:41,920
I'm gonna keep watching and listening

2203
01:34:45,630 --> 01:34:44,020
and seeing what they do and you know

2204
01:34:47,730 --> 01:34:45,640
what yeah what does that app to my mind

2205
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:47,740
and maybe at some point if I'm watching

2206
01:34:53,280 --> 01:34:50,530
and listening something I heard 10 or 15

2207
01:34:54,060 --> 01:34:53,290
or 20 years ago I'm gonna go oh wait a

2208
01:34:59,070 --> 01:34:54,070
second

2209
01:35:00,720 --> 01:34:59,080
and I'll either run down to you know run

2210
01:35:03,810 --> 01:35:00,730
down there or send them a message and

2211
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:03,820
say what's going on or you know somebody

2212
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:06,610
that knows them or that won't happen and

2213
01:35:11,670 --> 01:35:08,290
I'll just be in the dark forever I've

2214
01:35:13,140 --> 01:35:11,680
got an idea that you know unless there's

2215
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:13,150
some kind of disclosure or something

2216
01:35:18,990 --> 01:35:16,290
like that the end game here I think that

2217
01:35:21,780 --> 01:35:19,000
this thing will have a it will it has a

2218
01:35:23,160 --> 01:35:21,790
lifespan and it will run its course and

2219
01:35:26,310 --> 01:35:23,170
whatever they're doing they'll either

2220
01:35:27,780 --> 01:35:26,320
accomplish it or they won't and they

2221
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:27,790
will move on I mean that's how

2222
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:29,410
everything works and at that point we

2223
01:35:31,110 --> 01:35:30,610
here won't you're anything from them

2224
01:35:32,970 --> 01:35:31,120
anymore

2225
01:35:35,190 --> 01:35:32,980
and I hope it's after we figure some

2226
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:35,200
stuff out based on what they say or some

2227
01:35:38,430 --> 01:35:36,970
kind of revelation or some kind of you

2228
01:35:41,310 --> 01:35:38,440
know something useful that helps all of

2229
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:41,320
us I would love that to happen but I

2230
01:35:46,380 --> 01:35:43,530
don't know it might it might am I not

2231
01:35:48,690 --> 01:35:46,390
but but for the meantime it's it's the

2232
01:35:53,370 --> 01:35:48,700
you know it's one of its one of the best

2233
01:35:55,850 --> 01:35:53,380
shows in town it is and my take is this

2234
01:35:59,970 --> 01:35:55,860
this is what I've asked everybody to do

2235
01:36:03,380 --> 01:35:59,980
right now don't trust anybody just write

2236
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:03,390
on that because that's the safe zone

2237
01:36:07,500 --> 01:36:05,890
that's your cell for your friends you're

2238
01:36:09,180 --> 01:36:07,510
yourself and your friends are the power

2239
01:36:11,130 --> 01:36:09,190
elite and the kind of conspiracy not

2240
01:36:13,500 --> 01:36:11,140
other people I know that's a funny thing

2241
01:36:15,450 --> 01:36:13,510
to say but governor Wilson said that

2242
01:36:17,730 --> 01:36:15,460
once and I love that know that's that's

2243
01:36:20,250 --> 01:36:17,740
the that's the safe bet you know that's

2244
01:36:24,150 --> 01:36:20,260
the Las Vegas bet that's the safe play

2245
01:36:28,110 --> 01:36:24,160
and in two years you know we'll give

2246
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:28,120
this a like a two-year run and if what T

2247
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:32,530
TSA is is doing is correct then we can

2248
01:36:40,110 --> 01:36:36,490
establish some trust here and then you

2249
01:36:42,540 --> 01:36:40,120
know we can maybe take a chance and roll

2250
01:36:45,330 --> 01:36:42,550
the dice and get into the trust zone the

2251
01:36:46,980 --> 01:36:45,340
friend zone but until then let's just

2252
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:46,990
write this out it is the best show in

2253
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:49,410
town I totally agree with you

2254
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:52,650
no I mean I don't I am like I said I'm

2255
01:36:56,930 --> 01:36:55,410
neither foreigner against them and I

2256
01:36:58,550 --> 01:36:56,940
think what they're doing is exciting and

2257
01:37:01,400 --> 01:36:58,560
I think it's done some great it's had

2258
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:01,410
some great effects I mean it's wonderful

2259
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:02,730
some of the effects we already talked

2260
01:37:08,660 --> 01:37:05,610
about but we'll see what happens you

2261
01:37:09,860 --> 01:37:08,670
know I the the the fallout will take it

2262
01:37:11,450 --> 01:37:09,870
will be years I mean they'll still be

2263
01:37:13,340 --> 01:37:11,460
academics in scientists interested in

2264
01:37:14,630 --> 01:37:13,350
this weird stuff after that they just

2265
01:37:16,430 --> 01:37:14,640
kind of opened the door a little said

2266
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:16,440
hey you know maybe it's okay to talk

2267
01:37:20,330 --> 01:37:18,330
about this stuff and I think that's part

2268
01:37:22,730 --> 01:37:20,340
of their plan that was definitely part

2269
01:37:25,220 --> 01:37:22,740
of their plan well I did that's that's

2270
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:25,230
the bonus right that's the bonus play I

2271
01:37:28,580 --> 01:37:27,090
wanted to ask you this before we head to

2272
01:37:31,370 --> 01:37:28,590
the break and can I get you to hang out

2273
01:37:35,180 --> 01:37:31,380
for some overtime yes sure okay

2274
01:37:38,570 --> 01:37:35,190
we'll do that I wanted to ask you this

2275
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:38,580
the three videos the the gimbal and the

2276
01:37:42,830 --> 01:37:41,010
tic tac and the go-fast you've been

2277
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:42,840
looking at evidence you've been writing

2278
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:44,490
books you've been doing all of this

2279
01:37:53,890 --> 01:37:49,610
stuff for so long what was your first

2280
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:53,900
reaction to the videos when you saw them

2281
01:37:58,630 --> 01:37:56,970
that they're authentic lead unidentified

2282
01:38:02,120 --> 01:37:58,640
objects that were picked up by

2283
01:38:04,010 --> 01:38:02,130
sophisticated camera equipment I'm fine

2284
01:38:06,830 --> 01:38:04,020
you know what we have tons of those

2285
01:38:08,780 --> 01:38:06,840
tons but we have we have quite a few you

2286
01:38:17,810 --> 01:38:08,790
should run for politics man that was a

2287
01:38:20,690 --> 01:38:17,820
good political answer okay that's that

2288
01:38:24,530 --> 01:38:20,700
was my take okay that was my original

2289
01:38:26,750 --> 01:38:24,540
take now when I look at them

2290
01:38:28,700 --> 01:38:26,760
I don't have the same reaction that I

2291
01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:28,710
did originally I mean I fought tooth and

2292
01:38:33,830 --> 01:38:31,410
nail the people that were saying it's

2293
01:38:36,350 --> 01:38:33,840
nothing and I was like no no no no no no

2294
01:38:40,130 --> 01:38:36,360
no these these are the real deal now

2295
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:40,140
when I look at them I don't have the

2296
01:38:44,930 --> 01:38:43,290
same reaction like the go-fast video I

2297
01:38:46,460 --> 01:38:44,940
don't even see anything moving

2298
01:38:50,180 --> 01:38:46,470
I think the go-fast video is a

2299
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:50,190
stationary object that's just I look at

2300
01:38:56,150 --> 01:38:52,890
it now and I Durst there's been really

2301
01:38:58,400 --> 01:38:56,160
good skeptical viewpoints of this

2302
01:39:00,290 --> 01:38:58,410
especially by what's a meta bunk yeah

2303
01:39:02,240 --> 01:39:00,300
and those people are great I like those

2304
01:39:02,900 --> 01:39:02,250
people because I've been on their forums

2305
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:02,910
and they

2306
01:39:06,410 --> 01:39:05,010
don't make fun of people they don't say

2307
01:39:08,450 --> 01:39:06,420
this idiot or anything like that they

2308
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:08,460
just say let's look at the evidence and

2309
01:39:11,690 --> 01:39:10,650
see how it holds up now I may not agree

2310
01:39:13,910 --> 01:39:11,700
with them all the time but they're

2311
01:39:15,410 --> 01:39:13,920
they're a good skeptical organization

2312
01:39:17,450 --> 01:39:15,420
and they've made some great arguments

2313
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:17,460
against them being authentic and you

2314
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:18,930
said what was my first reaction that was

2315
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:21,090
my first reaction now one I'm not sure

2316
01:39:24,710 --> 01:39:23,130
and two I don't really think it makes

2317
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:24,720
any difference because there's so much

2318
01:39:28,370 --> 01:39:26,370
other film and video of this stuff and

2319
01:39:30,410 --> 01:39:28,380
there's so many you know eyewitness

2320
01:39:32,090 --> 01:39:30,420
testimony and all that if it was made up

2321
01:39:34,370 --> 01:39:32,100
it's just supporting stuff that's

2322
01:39:36,740 --> 01:39:34,380
basically out there anyway right right

2323
01:39:38,870 --> 01:39:36,750
yeah I don't have to say it doesn't it

2324
01:39:42,430 --> 01:39:38,880
doesn't it doesn't affect me like it did

2325
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:42,440
before part of it is Mehta bunk

2326
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:46,010
centering me right pulling me back in

2327
01:39:52,730 --> 01:39:50,010
into the sensible zone yes they're good

2328
01:39:54,620 --> 01:39:52,740
at that I've interacted with some of

2329
01:39:55,610 --> 01:39:54,630
them and they're all really I mean they

2330
01:39:57,230 --> 01:39:55,620
didn't know who I was and they've

2331
01:40:00,080 --> 01:39:57,240
accepted me and said I said look I'm a

2332
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:00,090
pilot and I've got this you know idea

2333
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:01,530
about it they said oh wow really okay

2334
01:40:05,090 --> 01:40:03,570
and you know something they hadn't

2335
01:40:06,740 --> 01:40:05,100
thought of whatever it was with the

2336
01:40:08,570 --> 01:40:06,750
chelate one of the the Chilean video

2337
01:40:10,220 --> 01:40:08,580
would the thing in the sky that looked

2338
01:40:14,810 --> 01:40:10,230
like a contrail that turned off and back

2339
01:40:17,480 --> 01:40:14,820
on again that that I followed that very

2340
01:40:20,180 --> 01:40:17,490
closely because they were going through

2341
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:20,190
a lot of things as a private pilot that

2342
01:40:24,230 --> 01:40:22,050
I learned about flying in direction and

2343
01:40:26,480 --> 01:40:24,240
and radar and all that other stuff and

2344
01:40:28,220 --> 01:40:26,490
they were right all I mean I went

2345
01:40:31,850 --> 01:40:28,230
through it with a fine-tooth comb sorted

2346
01:40:33,710 --> 01:40:31,860
I hired a and I could find no fault with

2347
01:40:35,180 --> 01:40:33,720
their reasoning I thought hey they

2348
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:35,190
figure it out this is great I mean the

2349
01:40:38,570 --> 01:40:36,930
last thing was well how does a contrail

2350
01:40:39,860 --> 01:40:38,580
disappear well that's very easy I should

2351
01:40:41,930 --> 01:40:39,870
have known this

2352
01:40:44,210 --> 01:40:41,940
I'm paragliding and suddenly I'm in like

2353
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:44,220
completely different feeling air well

2354
01:40:47,540 --> 01:40:45,570
that means the air has changed

2355
01:40:49,070 --> 01:40:47,550
temperature if the air change changes

2356
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:49,080
temperature in the middle of the sky

2357
01:40:53,150 --> 01:40:50,610
somewhere it means that the the

2358
01:40:55,670 --> 01:40:53,160
conditions for vapor to form of a

2359
01:40:57,140 --> 01:40:55,680
contrail have changed so we'll stop when

2360
01:40:59,090 --> 01:40:57,150
it's in that piece of air so it's

2361
01:41:02,120 --> 01:40:59,100
perfectly easy for a contrail to turn

2362
01:41:05,300 --> 01:41:02,130
off and on very very suddenly so you

2363
01:41:06,860 --> 01:41:05,310
know it took a while but it was really

2364
01:41:09,290 --> 01:41:06,870
interesting to follow their logic it

2365
01:41:10,940 --> 01:41:09,300
just takes a little bit of work there

2366
01:41:12,410 --> 01:41:10,950
was one other I want to ask you this

2367
01:41:14,060 --> 01:41:12,420
really quick before we get to the break

2368
01:41:16,290 --> 01:41:14,070
and when we come back I want to get to

2369
01:41:19,589 --> 01:41:16,300
et writing

2370
01:41:22,379 --> 01:41:19,599
and your your research into that I think

2371
01:41:25,799 --> 01:41:22,389
it's fascinating but before we get there

2372
01:41:33,530 --> 01:41:25,809
one thing I was taken aback about was

2373
01:41:37,370 --> 01:41:33,540
the artistic license that any networks

2374
01:41:40,770 --> 01:41:37,380
and History Channel did with the gimbal

2375
01:41:43,290 --> 01:41:40,780
image where they changed it and altered

2376
01:41:46,350 --> 01:41:43,300
it to make it look like a UFO with the

2377
01:41:52,260 --> 01:41:46,360
dome on the top and I thought that was

2378
01:41:53,459 --> 01:41:52,270
pretty belligerent right did stuff like

2379
01:41:56,399 --> 01:41:53,469
that bother you

2380
01:41:59,399 --> 01:41:56,409
or is it okay for for that type of

2381
01:42:00,990 --> 01:41:59,409
artistic license to sell a program it

2382
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:01,000
bothers me but there's nothing you can

2383
01:42:04,890 --> 01:42:03,010
do about it because it's TV I don't know

2384
01:42:07,379 --> 01:42:04,900
how much I really don't know how much

2385
01:42:09,629 --> 01:42:07,389
control t TSA has over the production

2386
01:42:11,370 --> 01:42:09,639
company I you know they might have a lot

2387
01:42:13,799 --> 01:42:11,380
they might not have any I really don't

2388
01:42:17,399 --> 01:42:13,809
know so it may not have been their

2389
01:42:19,319 --> 01:42:17,409
decision I really don't know I was in

2390
01:42:20,760 --> 01:42:19,329
that show one and they had me in to talk

2391
01:42:22,169 --> 01:42:20,770
about being it's like these people are

2392
01:42:25,229 --> 01:42:22,179
all intelligent so you better watch out

2393
01:42:26,729 --> 01:42:25,239
and all they said was afterwards like

2394
01:42:28,049 --> 01:42:26,739
yeah we know we're intelligence but

2395
01:42:29,910 --> 01:42:28,059
we're not doing that we're not pulling a

2396
01:42:32,609 --> 01:42:29,920
bennewitz we promise and that was the

2397
01:42:35,430 --> 01:42:32,619
end of it yeah if you're dealing with a

2398
01:42:37,950 --> 01:42:35,440
TV show you I know you've dealt with

2399
01:42:39,270 --> 01:42:37,960
them you can't say anything that can be

2400
01:42:40,799 --> 01:42:39,280
construed that's some other way because

2401
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:40,809
it'll probably be construed that other

2402
01:42:45,899 --> 01:42:44,170
way and that's all TV is about as making

2403
01:42:47,580 --> 01:42:45,909
people believe things and and being

2404
01:42:49,859 --> 01:42:47,590
flashy and all that and they're gonna do

2405
01:42:53,490 --> 01:42:49,869
that and it sucks and I don't like it I

2406
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:53,500
wish it wasn't done but it is and I know

2407
01:42:59,490 --> 01:42:55,690
why they do it yeah I know I know just

2408
01:43:01,530 --> 01:42:59,500
like I wanted your take on on Project

2409
01:43:03,330 --> 01:43:01,540
Blue Book too as well because I know

2410
01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:03,340
you're familiar with all of the cases

2411
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:05,770
that were presented in the series and

2412
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:08,530
they took artistic license to a whole

2413
01:43:14,580 --> 01:43:12,010
nother level to the point where it was

2414
01:43:16,620 --> 01:43:14,590
almost offensive but the audience that

2415
01:43:18,870 --> 01:43:16,630
doesn't know anything about Project Blue

2416
01:43:22,620 --> 01:43:18,880
Book or the cases specifically that are

2417
01:43:27,689 --> 01:43:22,630
discussed here they take it as being

2418
01:43:31,420 --> 01:43:27,699
factual and true again is is that okay

2419
01:43:35,150 --> 01:43:31,430
to do or is it just entertain

2420
01:43:41,180 --> 01:43:35,160
well I will answer that by in in a short

2421
01:43:44,240 --> 01:43:41,190
answer the people that make if TV made

2422
01:43:45,950 --> 01:43:44,250
UFO documentaries or dramatic series the

2423
01:43:51,710 --> 01:43:45,960
way that UFO people wanted the made

2424
01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:51,720
you'd never see them is that and that's

2425
01:43:55,310 --> 01:43:53,850
not that that's that sucks and it's

2426
01:43:58,340 --> 01:43:55,320
terrible but that's just the way it's

2427
01:44:00,020 --> 01:43:58,350
harsh reality is what it is yeah I don't

2428
01:44:01,820 --> 01:44:00,030
like it but you know if I had control

2429
01:44:03,140 --> 01:44:01,830
over it I might do it differently but

2430
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:03,150
it's also collaborative and there's

2431
01:44:06,110 --> 01:44:04,650
somebody at the top they can just say no

2432
01:44:06,860 --> 01:44:06,120
you're doing it this way or you don't

2433
01:44:10,190 --> 01:44:06,870
get paid

2434
01:44:11,540 --> 01:44:10,200
yeah you know so it's it's not you know

2435
01:44:12,710 --> 01:44:11,550
just info or anything it's just like I

2436
01:44:14,930 --> 01:44:12,720
don't think the audience is gonna like

2437
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:14,940
that thing but that's not what happened

2438
01:44:19,100 --> 01:44:16,770
no we need advertising dollars and

2439
01:44:21,260 --> 01:44:19,110
people need to keep watching and so

2440
01:44:21,950 --> 01:44:21,270
that's why they do those things and it's

2441
01:44:23,450 --> 01:44:21,960
terrible

2442
01:44:25,490 --> 01:44:23,460
and maybe this stuff shouldn't be

2443
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:25,500
presented as entertainment there's got

2444
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:26,850
to be a way to do it in an entertaining

2445
01:44:34,910 --> 01:44:30,210
way without twisting the truth my friend

2446
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:34,920
Paul Kimball did one called the I think

2447
01:44:39,290 --> 01:44:36,930
it was called the 10 best UFO cases he

2448
01:44:41,240 --> 01:44:39,300
did a film about and he was not

2449
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:41,250
sensationalizing it at all very good

2450
01:44:45,590 --> 01:44:44,010
documentary but most documentaries yeah

2451
01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:45,600
there's there's a lot of license taken

2452
01:44:49,550 --> 01:44:48,090
so because people figure they have to I

2453
01:44:51,530 --> 01:44:49,560
don't know why they figure that I know

2454
01:44:54,290 --> 01:44:51,540
they're probably right you know this is

2455
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:54,300
this is what's really funny and I was

2456
01:44:57,140 --> 01:44:55,530
called best evidence that's the

2457
01:45:00,260 --> 01:44:57,150
neighbors yeah that's a that's a great

2458
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:00,270
documentary is that when I was watching

2459
01:45:05,900 --> 01:45:02,850
and I watched the whole series project

2460
01:45:08,450 --> 01:45:05,910
Bluebook there was a part of me because

2461
01:45:11,450 --> 01:45:08,460
I knew too much right I'm just like

2462
01:45:13,220 --> 01:45:11,460
picking it apart and then another part

2463
01:45:14,660 --> 01:45:13,230
of me and I was getting angry it's like

2464
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:14,670
how can they do this how can they that

2465
01:45:19,550 --> 01:45:17,010
there's another part that was just going

2466
01:45:23,630 --> 01:45:19,560
you know what this is friggin good TV

2467
01:45:26,780 --> 01:45:23,640
I'm actually digging this and I watched

2468
01:45:29,570 --> 01:45:26,790
every episode and I had to disconnect

2469
01:45:30,650 --> 01:45:29,580
myself if I disconnected myself it was

2470
01:45:34,790 --> 01:45:30,660
good entertainment

2471
01:45:37,860 --> 01:45:34,800
the only thing that I found

2472
01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:37,870
offensive was the intro and outro to the

2473
01:45:42,090 --> 01:45:38,320
show

2474
01:45:44,010 --> 01:45:42,100
you know the the case you are about to

2475
01:45:46,580 --> 01:45:44,020
have come straight from Project Blue

2476
01:45:49,050 --> 01:45:46,590
Book the you know and that this is all

2477
01:45:51,090 --> 01:45:49,060
factual and that's the part that's

2478
01:45:53,790 --> 01:45:51,100
misleading if they took out the front in

2479
01:45:56,040 --> 01:45:53,800
the end and just ran it as a TV show

2480
01:45:58,770 --> 01:45:56,050
then it's no harm no foul

2481
01:46:00,030 --> 01:45:58,780
in my opinion yeah yeah TV shows are

2482
01:46:01,530 --> 01:46:00,040
just to get people interested in the

2483
01:46:03,390 --> 01:46:01,540
subject and interested the thing it is

2484
01:46:05,790 --> 01:46:03,400
sell advertising dollars and if it gets

2485
01:46:08,100 --> 01:46:05,800
two or three you know sharp people in to

2486
01:46:09,390 --> 01:46:08,110
add to the conversation great somebody

2487
01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:09,400
that wasn't interested before eventually

2488
01:46:14,970 --> 01:46:11,730
they go oh that was BS I'm still

2489
01:46:16,470 --> 01:46:14,980
interested though but so it's it's

2490
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:16,480
partly recruitment but also you know

2491
01:46:19,950 --> 01:46:18,010
it's just it's like watching the talk

2492
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:19,960
show or you know a cartoon or something

2493
01:46:24,570 --> 01:46:22,570
it's just there to entertain this is why

2494
01:46:26,790 --> 01:46:24,580
Greg Bishop is on fade to black right

2495
01:46:27,959 --> 01:46:26,800
now what a great conversation Greg stay

2496
01:46:28,470 --> 01:46:27,969
right there we're gonna go do some

2497
01:46:31,050 --> 01:46:28,480
overtime

2498
01:46:33,330 --> 01:46:31,060
this is fade to black I am your host

2499
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:33,340
Jimmy Church we'll be right back after

2500
01:46:48,020 --> 01:46:35,250
this short break stay with us

2501
01:46:52,820 --> 01:46:50,250
welcome back fade to black our guests I

2502
01:46:55,980 --> 01:46:52,830
Greg Bishop we're going into overtime I

2503
01:46:57,630 --> 01:46:55,990
wanted to I didn't get a chance to

2504
01:46:58,470 --> 01:46:57,640
mention this before the show that over

2505
01:47:04,050 --> 01:46:58,480
the weekend

2506
01:47:07,110 --> 01:47:04,060
Rita and I binge the Dark Crystal Age of

2507
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:07,120
resistance it is out on Netflix it's a

2508
01:47:15,450 --> 01:47:11,050
10 part series it's like 10 movies ok

2509
01:47:18,990 --> 01:47:15,460
it's 10 movies a huge investment of your

2510
01:47:20,670 --> 01:47:19,000
binge-watching time but if you're a fan

2511
01:47:24,150 --> 01:47:20,680
of the original Dark Crystal

2512
01:47:24,990 --> 01:47:24,160
like I think we all are this is gonna

2513
01:47:26,580 --> 01:47:25,000
blow your mind

2514
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:26,590
Greg have you checked it out yet have

2515
01:47:32,580 --> 01:47:29,530
you heard about this I've heard about it

2516
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:32,590
but I don't I don't the last thing I

2517
01:47:38,670 --> 01:47:35,890
binge watch was wild country which is

2518
01:47:40,530 --> 01:47:38,680
mind-blowing yes

2519
01:47:42,060 --> 01:47:40,540
so yeah it's really hard to get me to

2520
01:47:44,850 --> 01:47:42,070
watch TV because I worked in

2521
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:44,860
post-production for like 25 years and 95

2522
01:47:55,830 --> 01:47:53,280
plus I'm always like doing something I

2523
01:47:57,720 --> 01:47:55,840
figured like I should I'm sitting here

2524
01:47:59,040 --> 01:47:57,730
it's watching TV I should be producing I

2525
01:48:01,170 --> 01:47:59,050
should be producing something like my

2526
01:48:02,460 --> 01:48:01,180
show or writing something or whatever I

2527
01:48:04,710 --> 01:48:02,470
always feel like I should be doing

2528
01:48:06,390 --> 01:48:04,720
something besides sitting there so it's

2529
01:48:09,120 --> 01:48:06,400
hard to get me watching but I'll check

2530
01:48:11,190 --> 01:48:09,130
that one out yeah and you know the

2531
01:48:13,530 --> 01:48:11,200
original Dark Crystal right how great it

2532
01:48:16,740 --> 01:48:13,540
was and labyrinth too as well all that

2533
01:48:19,500 --> 01:48:16,750
early Jim Henson stuff was so good but

2534
01:48:25,310 --> 01:48:19,510
oh yeah it's a made this series all the

2535
01:48:30,480 --> 01:48:25,320
original designers the the painstakingly

2536
01:48:33,030 --> 01:48:30,490
produced but I'm I'm a because I do so

2537
01:48:35,850 --> 01:48:33,040
much radio and so much television and

2538
01:48:38,130 --> 01:48:35,860
I'm always in production that I need to

2539
01:48:41,100 --> 01:48:38,140
disconnect all right I have to stop

2540
01:48:43,590 --> 01:48:41,110
working and that's and this is well

2541
01:48:45,270 --> 01:48:43,600
worth it man I'm telling you you built

2542
01:48:47,250 --> 01:48:45,280
your train and it is dragging you along

2543
01:48:50,190 --> 01:48:47,260
you got to jump off every once in a

2544
01:48:50,580 --> 01:48:50,200
while it is it is crazy but it's so much

2545
01:48:53,940 --> 01:48:50,590
fun

2546
01:48:58,720 --> 01:48:53,950
I want to get into the alien writing

2547
01:49:01,660 --> 01:48:58,730
aspect of your research and the reason

2548
01:49:04,150 --> 01:49:01,670
I want to discuss this first off we

2549
01:49:07,510 --> 01:49:04,160
don't spend too much time talking about

2550
01:49:10,660 --> 01:49:07,520
this other than people's experiences

2551
01:49:13,150 --> 01:49:10,670
with it but the research side of it we

2552
01:49:14,680 --> 01:49:13,160
don't get a chance to dive into so I

2553
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:14,690
want to do that now and there's another

2554
01:49:20,530 --> 01:49:18,650
part of this that I find fascinating and

2555
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:20,540
that is whether you want to call a

2556
01:49:29,050 --> 01:49:25,370
channeling or telepathy or downloads or

2557
01:49:33,910 --> 01:49:29,060
what however you want to approach this

2558
01:49:36,100 --> 01:49:33,920
that there is a lot of similarities from

2559
01:49:37,870 --> 01:49:36,110
all around the globe across cultures

2560
01:49:39,700 --> 01:49:37,880
where somebody's getting information

2561
01:49:42,220 --> 01:49:39,710
from somewhere I don't know if there's

2562
01:49:45,100 --> 01:49:42,230
some crazy entanglement particle

2563
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:45,110
entanglement I don't know how this

2564
01:49:50,350 --> 01:49:46,970
communication happens but it certainly

2565
01:49:53,260 --> 01:49:50,360
does and there's a lot of similarity to

2566
01:49:55,900 --> 01:49:53,270
it so I don't know if we want to call it

2567
01:50:01,720 --> 01:49:55,910
a phenomenon but it is it's it's

2568
01:50:04,180 --> 01:50:01,730
occurring isn't it yeah you know the

2569
01:50:05,860 --> 01:50:04,190
genesis of my interest and I'm not you

2570
01:50:08,140 --> 01:50:05,870
know I haven't written books on it I

2571
01:50:11,700 --> 01:50:08,150
haven't gone out and active like grabbed

2572
01:50:14,940 --> 01:50:11,710
people and collected this kind of stuff

2573
01:50:17,950 --> 01:50:14,950
but I'm interested in it and I wrote

2574
01:50:22,180 --> 01:50:17,960
basically a biography which appeared one

2575
01:50:25,300 --> 01:50:22,190
of the daily Grail dark dark dark lore I

2576
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:25,310
think they're called collections a few

2577
01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:28,010
years ago was a biography of this guy

2578
01:50:31,480 --> 01:50:30,050
that I interviewed years ago I don't

2579
01:50:34,270 --> 01:50:31,490
know if you heard of his name was Mario

2580
01:50:37,990 --> 01:50:34,280
pot Cellini mm-hmm you have heard of him

2581
01:50:40,510 --> 01:50:38,000
yes yes he was a clinical psychology

2582
01:50:47,670 --> 01:50:40,520
died in 1999 he was a clinical

2583
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:52,300
what was it called messages oh wow I

2584
01:50:55,840 --> 01:50:53,810
can't remember the name of the book as

2585
01:50:58,450 --> 01:50:55,850
symbolic messages right right right

2586
01:51:00,910 --> 01:50:58,460
right self-published book Bob Girard

2587
01:51:04,270 --> 01:51:00,920
from our tourists used to sell it our

2588
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:04,280
tourist books but I saw an interview

2589
01:51:11,049 --> 01:51:09,530
with him in one of the anomalous

2590
01:51:12,970 --> 01:51:11,059
collections that used to come out

2591
01:51:16,510 --> 01:51:12,980
90s I think they may still be coming out

2592
01:51:18,580 --> 01:51:16,520
from Patrick weed and he interviewed

2593
01:51:21,310 --> 01:51:18,590
Mario I read this thing and I said wow

2594
01:51:23,890 --> 01:51:21,320
this guy's like he actively looks for

2595
01:51:25,979 --> 01:51:23,900
people that have had either been on UFOs

2596
01:51:29,890 --> 01:51:25,989
or said they have had an abduction

2597
01:51:33,129 --> 01:51:29,900
channeled otherwise received what they

2598
01:51:35,080 --> 01:51:33,139
say is written language from some other

2599
01:51:36,850 --> 01:51:35,090
thing that's not human being aliens or

2600
01:51:41,140 --> 01:51:36,860
angels or elves or whatever you want to

2601
01:51:43,479 --> 01:51:41,150
call it and he put them together in this

2602
01:51:45,490 --> 01:51:43,489
book I read the I read the interview and

2603
01:51:46,930 --> 01:51:45,500
I thought god that's fascinating I

2604
01:51:49,299 --> 01:51:46,940
wonder how I can get in touch with this

2605
01:51:53,589 --> 01:51:49,309
guy this is in the 90s and I barely had

2606
01:51:56,740 --> 01:51:53,599
internet right within a week a package

2607
01:51:59,700 --> 01:51:56,750
appeared in the Pele box for excluded

2608
01:52:02,080 --> 01:51:59,710
middle my magazine and it was from Mario

2609
01:52:06,609 --> 01:52:02,090
and he sent me a letter with his book

2610
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:06,619
for free and said I liked your magazine

2611
01:52:10,330 --> 01:52:08,690
here's something I think you you I think

2612
01:52:13,089 --> 01:52:10,340
you know I I said I knew you needed to

2613
01:52:16,390 --> 01:52:13,099
see it that was what he said and he was

2614
01:52:18,370 --> 01:52:16,400
right I mean the guy was in practice as

2615
01:52:20,140 --> 01:52:18,380
a clinical psychologist he had trained

2616
01:52:23,140 --> 01:52:20,150
to be a physicist that then changed his

2617
01:52:27,250 --> 01:52:23,150
psychology and he was a really sharp guy

2618
01:52:31,120 --> 01:52:27,260
like scary scary smart guy he had helped

2619
01:52:34,569 --> 01:52:31,130
run the bad trip tent at at Woodstock

2620
01:52:36,879 --> 01:52:34,579
right so he'd been around for a while I

2621
01:52:40,959 --> 01:52:36,889
remember so all of this I remember all

2622
01:52:42,700 --> 01:52:40,969
of this continued yeah and at some point

2623
01:52:44,410 --> 01:52:42,710
in his life he decided you know what I'm

2624
01:52:46,120 --> 01:52:44,420
gonna start studying this and the reason

2625
01:52:48,729 --> 01:52:46,130
that you know I I thought it was because

2626
01:52:51,069 --> 01:52:48,739
he just decided to start studying so one

2627
01:52:52,450 --> 01:52:51,079
of the examples in the book was like

2628
01:52:53,799 --> 01:52:52,460
these little these things look like

2629
01:52:55,209 --> 01:52:53,809
tinker toys there were sticks with

2630
01:52:56,799 --> 01:52:55,219
circles but they just looked like a

2631
01:52:58,689 --> 01:52:56,809
bunch of sticks with circles on little

2632
01:53:01,000 --> 01:52:58,699
circles at the ends of them and what the

2633
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:01,010
caption was angelic writing from child

2634
01:53:05,500 --> 01:53:03,770
aged four to five years I said well I

2635
01:53:07,029 --> 01:53:05,510
guess that's interesting he told me

2636
01:53:08,740 --> 01:53:07,039
after I'd known him for about a year and

2637
01:53:10,029 --> 01:53:08,750
a half after I got his trust that that

2638
01:53:13,180 --> 01:53:10,039
was his writing when he was four or five

2639
01:53:15,399 --> 01:53:13,190
years old so he had been channeling this

2640
01:53:16,810 --> 01:53:15,409
weird writing and his mother asked him

2641
01:53:18,879 --> 01:53:16,820
what it was and he says it was the

2642
01:53:20,430 --> 01:53:18,889
angels writing said the angels are

2643
01:53:22,720 --> 01:53:20,440
talking to be and this is how they write

2644
01:53:24,220 --> 01:53:22,730
and I asked him you know well how did

2645
01:53:24,850 --> 01:53:24,230
you get you know how did it appear he

2646
01:53:26,500 --> 01:53:24,860
goes I just started

2647
01:53:28,390 --> 01:53:26,510
writing it I didn't know where it came

2648
01:53:30,310 --> 01:53:28,400
from so I figured it was angels and they

2649
01:53:32,910 --> 01:53:30,320
were Catholic so that was the model that

2650
01:53:36,729 --> 01:53:32,920
he had his his mother was from Italy

2651
01:53:38,680 --> 01:53:36,739
pots of gleaning right but he had had

2652
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:38,690
sightings of things growing up he's one

2653
01:53:42,520 --> 01:53:40,250
of those academics we're talking about

2654
01:53:43,959 --> 01:53:42,530
that it had weird stuff happened and he

2655
01:53:46,990 --> 01:53:43,969
was trying to figure out how you know

2656
01:53:49,479 --> 01:53:47,000
what it was and his inroad into this was

2657
01:53:53,229 --> 01:53:49,489
this writing that's the strange he

2658
01:53:56,109 --> 01:53:53,239
called them received scripts and so he

2659
01:53:57,879 --> 01:53:56,119
started you know talking people going

2660
01:54:00,160 --> 01:53:57,889
out actively seeking this he got a bunch

2661
01:54:03,129 --> 01:54:00,170
of stuff from Betty Andreasen there's a

2662
01:54:04,570 --> 01:54:03,139
bit advanced examples in his book from

2663
01:54:09,189 --> 01:54:04,580
the Andreasen affair which most people

2664
01:54:11,350 --> 01:54:09,199
listening probably know about he and

2665
01:54:14,200 --> 01:54:11,360
then he decided he tried to figure out

2666
01:54:15,820 --> 01:54:14,210
how does you know how does this compare

2667
01:54:18,729 --> 01:54:15,830
to regular types of writing earthly

2668
01:54:20,530 --> 01:54:18,739
types of writing because there are

2669
01:54:22,959 --> 01:54:20,540
there's three different kinds of writing

2670
01:54:26,140 --> 01:54:22,969
there's there's alphabetic like we have

2671
01:54:30,100 --> 01:54:26,150
video graphic which I believe is you

2672
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:30,110
know like like Chinese or Japanese

2673
01:54:33,160 --> 01:54:31,730
something like that and there's

2674
01:54:37,689 --> 01:54:33,170
pictographic which is like you know

2675
01:54:39,790 --> 01:54:37,699
hieroglyphs and he said that the the

2676
01:54:42,910 --> 01:54:39,800
writing basically broke down into these

2677
01:54:44,379 --> 01:54:42,920
three main categories there were some

2678
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:44,389
that weren't like that some of them like

2679
01:54:49,689 --> 01:54:46,850
look like geometric shapes with patterns

2680
01:54:51,310 --> 01:54:49,699
on them but I said well how do you tell

2681
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:51,320
if it's real or not quote-unquote he

2682
01:54:54,609 --> 01:54:53,210
goes well the stuff that tends to be

2683
01:54:56,229 --> 01:54:54,619
made up and somebody knows they're

2684
01:54:58,810 --> 01:54:56,239
making up have a one-to-one relationship

2685
01:55:01,300 --> 01:54:58,820
with the means native speakers written

2686
01:55:03,459 --> 01:55:01,310
language like a is this symbol and B is

2687
01:55:04,689 --> 01:55:03,469
this symbol and C as a symbol but then

2688
01:55:07,930 --> 01:55:04,699
you get into things that make no sense

2689
01:55:09,310 --> 01:55:07,940
whatsoever he said I said well what give

2690
01:55:11,530 --> 01:55:09,320
me an example he said well Betty and

2691
01:55:14,379 --> 01:55:11,540
Reyes and stuff it looks like nothing

2692
01:55:15,820 --> 01:55:14,389
else I've ever seen and I said well what

2693
01:55:18,580 --> 01:55:15,830
do you make of it he goes I tried to I

2694
01:55:20,830 --> 01:55:18,590
tried to translate it once so well how

2695
01:55:23,229 --> 01:55:20,840
do you do that he says well like I kind

2696
01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:23,239
of put myself in a trance state and

2697
01:55:27,790 --> 01:55:26,210
asked what it should what it meant and

2698
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:27,800
he said I got an answer back said well

2699
01:55:30,820 --> 01:55:29,210
what does it look like and he said well

2700
01:55:33,220 --> 01:55:30,830
sort of like how chemical symbols and

2701
01:55:35,859 --> 01:55:33,230
then whatever he was talking to you said

2702
01:55:37,450 --> 01:55:35,869
well try that and he tried it and he

2703
01:55:38,870 --> 01:55:37,460
said the only phrase used ever to get

2704
01:55:40,850 --> 01:55:38,880
out of it which i think is the coolest

2705
01:55:46,070 --> 01:55:40,860
thing ever was if you want to make light

2706
01:55:54,649 --> 01:55:46,080
solid show it to the moon what does that

2707
01:55:56,629 --> 01:55:54,659
mean no but it's really great so you

2708
01:55:58,669 --> 01:55:56,639
know these people that get these

2709
01:56:00,229 --> 01:55:58,679
received scripts it's it's their way of

2710
01:56:02,450 --> 01:56:00,239
dealing with whatever it is that's being

2711
01:56:04,370 --> 01:56:02,460
said to them and being communicated to

2712
01:56:06,379 --> 01:56:04,380
them and it's how they process their

2713
01:56:08,270 --> 01:56:06,389
experience and some of them they never

2714
01:56:10,220 --> 01:56:08,280
show it to anybody it's a secret and

2715
01:56:11,629 --> 01:56:10,230
they don't mind and other people maybe

2716
01:56:13,970 --> 01:56:11,639
share it with friends and some people

2717
01:56:18,020 --> 01:56:13,980
publish whole books there's one called

2718
01:56:20,979 --> 01:56:18,030
the language of ah Hui a UI by John wild

2719
01:56:23,780 --> 01:56:20,989
guard I think his name is that's a whole

2720
01:56:26,120 --> 01:56:23,790
received language it has no relationship

2721
01:56:29,870 --> 01:56:26,130
to you know a specific language at all I

2722
01:56:34,459 --> 01:56:29,880
believe but there's so many examples of

2723
01:56:36,500 --> 01:56:34,469
this and I you know I asked I've

2724
01:56:38,660 --> 01:56:36,510
actually asked Mario I was like well are

2725
01:56:40,850 --> 01:56:38,670
people making this up from somewhere in

2726
01:56:43,100 --> 01:56:40,860
their subconscious and he said I don't

2727
01:56:43,610 --> 01:56:43,110
think so in a lot of these cases well

2728
01:56:46,850 --> 01:56:43,620
why not

2729
01:56:49,790 --> 01:56:46,860
he said they get information there is no

2730
01:56:54,260 --> 01:56:49,800
way they should know about it and a lot

2731
01:56:57,530 --> 01:56:54,270
of my cases like scientific information

2732
01:56:59,240 --> 01:56:57,540
or musical notations or pieces of I

2733
01:57:01,100 --> 01:56:59,250
don't know languages they don't know

2734
01:57:02,840 --> 01:57:01,110
about that suddenly they can speak

2735
01:57:04,580 --> 01:57:02,850
things like that he says it a lot of

2736
01:57:06,020 --> 01:57:04,590
these you know is I think the true ones

2737
01:57:10,040 --> 01:57:06,030
one don't have a relationship to the

2738
01:57:11,750 --> 01:57:10,050
speaker's native language and two they

2739
01:57:13,910 --> 01:57:11,760
may have some information or truths in

2740
01:57:15,379 --> 01:57:13,920
there that the the speaker has no way of

2741
01:57:19,310 --> 01:57:15,389
knowing or it's not sophisticated enough

2742
01:57:20,959 --> 01:57:19,320
to know so that to me is fascinating I

2743
01:57:23,030 --> 01:57:20,969
mean I think it's an ongoing thing I

2744
01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:23,040
still every once in a while I will see

2745
01:57:30,470 --> 01:57:25,050
examples of what is called alien writing

2746
01:57:34,430 --> 01:57:30,480
and that it I I would like to look into

2747
01:57:36,500 --> 01:57:34,440
it more and talk to people but you talk

2748
01:57:38,209 --> 01:57:36,510
to anybody that has received alien or a

2749
01:57:39,709 --> 01:57:38,219
few people informally I've talked to

2750
01:57:41,090 --> 01:57:39,719
them about it and what they've told me

2751
01:57:42,530 --> 01:57:41,100
is just what I told you it's like look

2752
01:57:44,360 --> 01:57:42,540
it comes to me I don't know where it

2753
01:57:45,770 --> 01:57:44,370
comes from or some people say it comes

2754
01:57:47,590 --> 01:57:45,780
from these people in this galaxy and

2755
01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:47,600
this you know and they're very specific

2756
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:50,330
have you been able to cross-reference

2757
01:57:59,360 --> 01:57:52,170
some of

2758
01:58:02,390 --> 01:57:59,370
the symbols specific symbols from not

2759
01:58:06,460 --> 01:58:02,400
only petroglyphs or even Egyptian or

2760
01:58:09,620 --> 01:58:06,470
other ancient texts but through

2761
01:58:12,410 --> 01:58:09,630
different experiences that have done

2762
01:58:15,710 --> 01:58:12,420
this and got back and cross-referenced

2763
01:58:18,260 --> 01:58:15,720
where there is no way that the exact

2764
01:58:22,280 --> 01:58:18,270
symbol could have been repeated not only

2765
01:58:25,700 --> 01:58:22,290
over time but over distances too as well

2766
01:58:29,450 --> 01:58:25,710
were you able to hit the the holy the

2767
01:58:31,960 --> 01:58:29,460
you know the the holy grail of cross

2768
01:58:35,780 --> 01:58:31,970
referencing something that shouldn't be

2769
01:58:37,820 --> 01:58:35,790
not really I'm sorry to say it all the

2770
01:58:40,280 --> 01:58:37,830
things that looked real to Mario and

2771
01:58:41,990 --> 01:58:40,290
that I've seen are things that don't

2772
01:58:44,030 --> 01:58:42,000
seem to have any reference to anything

2773
01:58:45,860 --> 01:58:44,040
else except just by you know maybe

2774
01:58:47,270 --> 01:58:45,870
chance where you know there's a couple

2775
01:58:48,890 --> 01:58:47,280
symbols that sort of look like higher

2776
01:58:52,130 --> 01:58:48,900
Attic Egyptian or something like that

2777
01:58:53,660 --> 01:58:52,140
right but you know that doesn't mean

2778
01:58:55,730 --> 01:58:53,670
anything it just means you know it's a

2779
01:58:58,400 --> 01:58:55,740
pattern that either they happened upon

2780
01:59:00,860 --> 01:58:58,410
just by accident or that's the way the

2781
01:59:02,330 --> 01:59:00,870
human mind works and that's you know and

2782
01:59:04,190 --> 01:59:02,340
it sees things in certain you know that

2783
01:59:07,580 --> 01:59:04,200
there's a whole theory about art and

2784
01:59:11,210 --> 01:59:07,590
ends and and symbology and all that has

2785
01:59:12,410 --> 01:59:11,220
to do with human perception and how it

2786
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:12,420
perceives things and how it you know

2787
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:13,850
artists deal with this all the time

2788
01:59:19,160 --> 01:59:16,890
there's a I know people that are

2789
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:19,170
obsessed is what symbols are and how how

2790
01:59:23,590 --> 01:59:21,570
your subconscious and how your even down

2791
01:59:26,420 --> 01:59:23,600
here you know your culture and your DNA

2792
01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:26,430
comes up with that kind of symbol

2793
01:59:30,350 --> 01:59:28,170
I'm sorry can't be more specific than

2794
01:59:32,090 --> 01:59:30,360
that there's also a phenomenon called a

2795
01:59:34,040 --> 01:59:32,100
semuc writing which is a type which is a

2796
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:34,050
type of artwork which are things that

2797
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:36,810
look like writing but they aren't which

2798
01:59:39,710 --> 01:59:38,370
are also fascinating I mean they're just

2799
01:59:41,300 --> 01:59:39,720
beautiful and they're almost like you

2800
01:59:43,010 --> 01:59:41,310
know they're abstract art and they can

2801
01:59:45,140 --> 01:59:43,020
give you a certain sense or a feeling or

2802
01:59:47,090 --> 01:59:45,150
whatever and that just because of my

2803
01:59:49,910 --> 01:59:47,100
that alien writing back I'm really

2804
01:59:51,950 --> 01:59:49,920
interested in that s emic ASEM I see

2805
01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:51,960
there's a group for it on Facebook and

2806
01:59:59,360 --> 01:59:53,370
you'd find a bunch of it online

2807
02:00:01,580 --> 01:59:59,370
what about peniston's symbols that he

2808
02:00:06,020 --> 02:00:01,590
recounted that he saw you know at

2809
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:06,030
Rendlesham i've never really looked real

2810
02:00:09,590 --> 02:00:07,770
the symbols but I've never really looked

2811
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:09,600
closely I would be fascinated to know if

2812
02:00:12,740 --> 02:00:11,010
somebody has ever found out if there

2813
02:00:14,300 --> 02:00:12,750
does he claim that there's a wandering

2814
02:00:15,830 --> 02:00:14,310
relationship with English or does he

2815
02:00:17,330 --> 02:00:15,840
even know what they mean no there's a

2816
02:00:19,400 --> 02:00:17,340
lot of the people I've talked to in

2817
02:00:21,560 --> 02:00:19,410
mario talk to tell me look I know what

2818
02:00:24,980 --> 02:00:21,570
they mean and they make sense to me and

2819
02:00:27,530 --> 02:00:24,990
they and they they help me understand

2820
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:27,540
what's being communicated to me but

2821
02:00:32,840 --> 02:00:29,610
they're not useful to other people

2822
02:00:35,750 --> 02:00:32,850
oh that's interesting they're very

2823
02:00:39,410 --> 02:00:35,760
personal not almost emotion like it's a

2824
02:00:40,880 --> 02:00:39,420
it's an emotion or it's a color or

2825
02:00:42,860 --> 02:00:40,890
something like that's like when I see

2826
02:00:45,170 --> 02:00:42,870
this I understand what whatever it is

2827
02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:45,180
the alien or the elf for the angel or

2828
02:00:51,140 --> 02:00:48,090
the whatever it is is trying to say to

2829
02:00:52,760 --> 02:00:51,150
me but it's just me if I show it to you

2830
02:00:58,070 --> 02:00:52,770
it makes no sense to you unless you know

2831
02:01:01,310 --> 02:00:58,080
that that alien elf or an angel or extra

2832
02:01:05,660 --> 02:01:01,320
human being thing well would I this is

2833
02:01:08,390 --> 02:01:05,670
what this is to my untrained eye but

2834
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:08,400
when I was looking at some of the stuff

2835
02:01:16,490 --> 02:01:13,650
from Pat Cellini back then because a few

2836
02:01:18,620 --> 02:01:16,500
things happen at the same time one there

2837
02:01:20,420 --> 02:01:18,630
were some pretty interesting crop

2838
02:01:25,630 --> 02:01:20,430
circles that were popping up over in

2839
02:01:28,790 --> 02:01:25,640
England I was looking at his text

2840
02:01:32,090 --> 02:01:28,800
Jackson guitars came out with a guitar

2841
02:01:34,160 --> 02:01:32,100
at the time that had these symbols on

2842
02:01:40,900 --> 02:01:34,170
the neck of the guitar was called the

2843
02:01:44,600 --> 02:01:40,910
Roswell guitar and and I was seeing

2844
02:01:46,730 --> 02:01:44,610
North American petroglyphs I was seeing

2845
02:01:48,620 --> 02:01:46,740
the same stuff on this Roswell guitar I

2846
02:01:53,150 --> 02:01:48,630
was seeing the same stuff coming up in

2847
02:01:55,760 --> 02:01:53,160
England and it all was kind of gelling

2848
02:01:58,490 --> 02:01:55,770
at the same time and all I could say to

2849
02:02:02,420 --> 02:01:58,500
myself was there's a similarity here

2850
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:02,430
people are getting downloads that I'm

2851
02:02:08,030 --> 02:02:03,930
not so sure if they're researching

2852
02:02:11,810 --> 02:02:08,040
petroglyphs in in the American West and

2853
02:02:14,420 --> 02:02:11,820
and recreating those in in fields in

2854
02:02:16,790 --> 02:02:14,430
England and then turn on located ones or

2855
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:16,800
like simple ones like spirals you know

2856
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:17,770
what I always

2857
02:02:25,860 --> 02:02:22,330
looked at it like I think you even just

2858
02:02:29,120 --> 02:02:25,870
said this Tinkertoys right where I was

2859
02:02:33,810 --> 02:02:29,130
you know you see the concentric circles

2860
02:02:36,090 --> 02:02:33,820
with the sticks coming out of it and and

2861
02:02:38,820 --> 02:02:36,100
then join together you know remember how

2862
02:02:42,360 --> 02:02:38,830
you could join tinker toys with a short

2863
02:02:46,500 --> 02:02:42,370
stick in between the two and and then

2864
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:46,510
and you know it was like that but we

2865
02:02:50,370 --> 02:02:48,730
have to look at the ages of the

2866
02:02:53,490 --> 02:02:50,380
petroglyphs in the American Southwest

2867
02:02:56,700 --> 02:02:53,500
what were they seeing how is the

2868
02:02:59,070 --> 02:02:56,710
connection happening in in England with

2869
02:03:01,530 --> 02:02:59,080
these crop circles and then popping up

2870
02:03:05,670 --> 02:03:01,540
on the Roswell guitar neck I just

2871
02:03:09,060 --> 02:03:05,680
thought maybe it was a synchronicity for

2872
02:03:11,070 --> 02:03:09,070
you well could be but I was certainly

2873
02:03:14,280 --> 02:03:11,080
senior you're the connecting link there

2874
02:03:20,010 --> 02:03:14,290
yeah I would like yeah that would be

2875
02:03:25,500 --> 02:03:20,020
fascinating but the the the the

2876
02:03:27,900 --> 02:03:25,510
symbolism of its simplicity I think is

2877
02:03:31,350 --> 02:03:27,910
the right word right that I'm looking

2878
02:03:33,060 --> 02:03:31,360
for here but the synchronicity of all of

2879
02:03:36,090 --> 02:03:33,070
this happening at the same time I found

2880
02:03:37,620 --> 02:03:36,100
very very strange where is it was

2881
02:03:40,230 --> 02:03:37,630
something that was supposed to be very

2882
02:03:43,530 --> 02:03:40,240
significant to you personally I think

2883
02:03:46,500 --> 02:03:43,540
what you should do after the show

2884
02:03:49,680 --> 02:03:46,510
tonight look up the Roswell guitar from

2885
02:03:53,190 --> 02:03:49,690
Jackson let look at look at what's

2886
02:03:57,750 --> 02:03:53,200
what's on the neck go look at Paisley

2887
02:03:59,790 --> 02:03:57,760
knees symbols that are gellick writing

2888
02:04:02,640 --> 02:03:59,800
and write and and go and check that out

2889
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:02,650
and see if it doesn't resonate that if

2890
02:04:06,720 --> 02:04:04,810
I'm not too far off the mark here yeah

2891
02:04:09,240 --> 02:04:06,730
I'd like to there's something called int

2892
02:04:10,800 --> 02:04:09,250
optic phenomena too is like patterns you

2893
02:04:12,330 --> 02:04:10,810
see when your eyes are closed or when

2894
02:04:15,960 --> 02:04:12,340
you press on your eyeballs or whatever

2895
02:04:18,270 --> 02:04:15,970
those show up also in petroglyphs

2896
02:04:20,820 --> 02:04:18,280
another thing that was pointed at Mario

2897
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:20,830
told me this and other people have sort

2898
02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:23,050
of confirmed it is a lot of places where

2899
02:04:27,480 --> 02:04:24,730
petroglyphs show up have radioactivity

2900
02:04:28,500 --> 02:04:27,490
radioactive elements of the rocks you

2901
02:04:30,900 --> 02:04:28,510
know not enough that's going to hurt

2902
02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:30,910
anybody or anything like that but they

2903
02:04:35,580 --> 02:04:31,690
seem to think

2904
02:04:41,100 --> 02:04:35,590
connection with that too as Mario still

2905
02:04:43,680 --> 02:04:41,110
alive no he died of cancer in 1999 1999

2906
02:04:45,450 --> 02:04:43,690
I just got there I'd only known him for

2907
02:04:47,910 --> 02:04:45,460
like four or five years we saw each

2908
02:04:49,410 --> 02:04:47,920
other at Roswell in 97 and we hung out

2909
02:04:51,360 --> 02:04:49,420
sigh there's only time I actually got to

2910
02:04:53,310 --> 02:04:51,370
hung out hang out and talk with him and

2911
02:04:55,770 --> 02:04:53,320
we went thrift store shopping as we were

2912
02:04:56,790 --> 02:04:55,780
bored with the with the lectures I said

2913
02:04:58,830 --> 02:04:56,800
Mario you want to go to any lecture she

2914
02:05:01,320 --> 02:04:58,840
said no he said do you want to go thrift

2915
02:05:03,030 --> 02:05:01,330
store shopping I think yeah so we went

2916
02:05:07,260 --> 02:05:03,040
and we've you know what a violet ray

2917
02:05:09,810 --> 02:05:07,270
machine is no it is a quack medical

2918
02:05:14,220 --> 02:05:09,820
device from the 19th teens 20s something

2919
02:05:17,310 --> 02:05:14,230
like that that was basically a a glass

2920
02:05:18,840 --> 02:05:17,320
tube that you could apply had a little

2921
02:05:21,660 --> 02:05:18,850
wand you could attach it to and it would

2922
02:05:23,070 --> 02:05:21,670
apply power electricity to it and what

2923
02:05:24,420 --> 02:05:23,080
there was I think I can't remember what

2924
02:05:26,580 --> 02:05:24,430
kind of gas in it but it was good it

2925
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:26,590
would glow purple violet you're supposed

2926
02:05:29,910 --> 02:05:27,970
to run it over your arms and stuff

2927
02:05:31,560 --> 02:05:29,920
anyway we're walking through a thrift

2928
02:05:33,000 --> 02:05:31,570
store in Roswell and he points at the

2929
02:05:35,970 --> 02:05:33,010
floor and says oh a violet ray machine

2930
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:35,980
and it's a it's a it's an old wooden box

2931
02:05:39,330 --> 02:05:37,810
with leather wrap down around it it's

2932
02:05:41,970 --> 02:05:39,340
like oh you don't know what that is

2933
02:05:43,740 --> 02:05:41,980
Marya does I collect them it's like well

2934
02:05:46,470 --> 02:05:43,750
luckily because he already had one so I

2935
02:05:48,750 --> 02:05:46,480
bought it I still have it doesn't does

2936
02:05:51,780 --> 02:05:48,760
it work yeah it works it makes a very

2937
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:51,790
funny bar and when you run it over your

2938
02:05:55,830 --> 02:05:53,410
skin it gives you tiny little electric

2939
02:05:57,420 --> 02:05:55,840
shocks and it glows purple you're

2940
02:05:59,220 --> 02:05:57,430
supposed to like you know stimulate hair

2941
02:06:04,590 --> 02:05:59,230
growth and get your blood flowing and

2942
02:06:07,290 --> 02:06:04,600
all that your arms gonna fall off well

2943
02:06:10,860 --> 02:06:07,300
with all of your research and I want to

2944
02:06:12,750 --> 02:06:10,870
thank you for an absolutely mind

2945
02:06:14,670 --> 02:06:12,760
expanding conversation tonight I

2946
02:06:17,520 --> 02:06:14,680
expected it but I want to thank you for

2947
02:06:20,610 --> 02:06:17,530
that but if you were as if you're a

2948
02:06:26,040 --> 02:06:20,620
betting man Gregg and you had the one

2949
02:06:28,110 --> 02:06:26,050
case that that you were sure about right

2950
02:06:32,130 --> 02:06:28,120
you're in court and you're gonna present

2951
02:06:35,220 --> 02:06:32,140
the evidence of the one case the one UFO

2952
02:06:40,260 --> 02:06:35,230
situation what case is that

2953
02:06:42,210 --> 02:06:40,270
I really don't know I have favorites

2954
02:06:45,540 --> 02:06:42,220
probably my favorite it's been four

2955
02:06:48,920 --> 02:06:45,550
years you can see it on my my avatar is

2956
02:06:51,000 --> 02:06:48,930
goula yeah that's that's a strong one I

2957
02:06:54,770 --> 02:06:51,010
always thought it was a strong one no

2958
02:07:00,540 --> 02:06:57,810
Cal I mean Calvin Parker still alive if

2959
02:07:02,490 --> 02:07:00,550
you had him on no we almost had him on

2960
02:07:05,190 --> 02:07:02,500
last year we went back and forth and we

2961
02:07:09,300 --> 02:07:05,200
just couldn't work out okay but it's

2962
02:07:12,450 --> 02:07:09,310
I'll wrote a book co-wrote it with a I

2963
02:07:14,340 --> 02:07:12,460
think I named Mendes I believe anyway he

2964
02:07:16,080 --> 02:07:14,350
wrote a book about his experiences and

2965
02:07:17,970 --> 02:07:16,090
he was a repeater he had other stuff

2966
02:07:19,920 --> 02:07:17,980
happened to him which you know used to

2967
02:07:22,290 --> 02:07:19,930
be a NASA months ago he's making it up

2968
02:07:25,020 --> 02:07:22,300
but I think it strengthens his case and

2969
02:07:27,990 --> 02:07:25,030
one of the cases was they saw like a

2970
02:07:30,420 --> 02:07:28,000
giant glowing saucer-shaped thing with

2971
02:07:34,140 --> 02:07:30,430
lights hanging over a highway and rural

2972
02:07:39,210 --> 02:07:34,150
I think it is Louisiana his whole family

2973
02:07:40,860 --> 02:07:39,220
like six people in the car and that that

2974
02:07:42,390 --> 02:07:40,870
to me is fascinating which makes the

2975
02:07:44,010 --> 02:07:42,400
case even more rich for me and then I

2976
02:07:45,180 --> 02:07:44,020
guess recently they've had people to

2977
02:07:46,830 --> 02:07:45,190
come forward and said they saw other

2978
02:07:49,890 --> 02:07:46,840
stuff either in the same area at the

2979
02:07:54,120 --> 02:07:49,900
same time or whatever as as Hickson and

2980
02:07:57,960 --> 02:07:54,130
Parker did at Pascagoula yeah I'm with

2981
02:08:00,930 --> 02:07:57,970
you on that when that case broke I was I

2982
02:08:04,770 --> 02:08:00,940
was very young but it made the headlines

2983
02:08:06,510 --> 02:08:04,780
and it was it was front-page news

2984
02:08:09,600 --> 02:08:06,520
everybody was talking about it all

2985
02:08:13,020 --> 02:08:09,610
around the country and at that age where

2986
02:08:15,480 --> 02:08:13,030
I was so into the UFO subject it is

2987
02:08:20,730 --> 02:08:15,490
something that has stuck with me over

2988
02:08:23,700 --> 02:08:20,740
the years and yeah and Calvin I hold him

2989
02:08:25,470 --> 02:08:23,710
up there right next to Travis Walton and

2990
02:08:29,310 --> 02:08:25,480
I think you know that both of those

2991
02:08:33,060 --> 02:08:29,320
cases are very very very very strong

2992
02:08:35,610 --> 02:08:33,070
Calvin's case is is about as fascinating

2993
02:08:37,710 --> 02:08:35,620
as as it gets I'm with you on that I'm

2994
02:08:41,250 --> 02:08:37,720
with you on that yeah and maybe Socorro

2995
02:08:43,950 --> 02:08:41,260
too you know what that's it you're right

2996
02:08:50,370 --> 02:08:43,960
you and I think right along the same

2997
02:08:53,640 --> 02:08:50,380
path I think Socorro Zamora I think is

2998
02:08:56,400 --> 02:08:53,650
one of the more how do I want to say

2999
02:08:58,770 --> 02:08:56,410
this because of his law enforcement

3000
02:09:01,500 --> 02:08:58,780
background and who

3001
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:01,510
is recollection and the facts of the

3002
02:09:08,460 --> 02:09:04,810
case and how he is able to to present it

3003
02:09:11,010 --> 02:09:08,470
from that mindset is something that we

3004
02:09:13,410 --> 02:09:11,020
need to honestly seriously take a look

3005
02:09:15,300 --> 02:09:13,420
at and there were multiple witnesses and

3006
02:09:17,640 --> 02:09:15,310
that means to a family saw it floating

3007
02:09:20,850 --> 02:09:17,650
over the highway yep and you're talking

3008
02:09:22,560 --> 02:09:20,860
about at the gas station yeah yeah the

3009
02:09:25,650 --> 02:09:22,570
gas station part of it and then you have

3010
02:09:29,010 --> 02:09:25,660
the J Allen Hynek aspect to the case too

3011
02:09:30,060 --> 02:09:29,020
as well yeah fan race Stanford who went

3012
02:09:31,680 --> 02:09:30,070
out there and wrote a whole book about

3013
02:09:33,030 --> 02:09:31,690
it he was there before the air force no

3014
02:09:36,270 --> 02:09:33,040
he was right after the air force but

3015
02:09:38,040 --> 02:09:36,280
before or right out I can't remember

3016
02:09:39,300 --> 02:09:38,050
Minh tennety got out there before him

3017
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:39,310
but he got out there before Hynek

3018
02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:41,530
actually by like a day there's a couple

3019
02:09:49,440 --> 02:09:45,450
of photographs and I think ray took one

3020
02:09:52,950 --> 02:09:49,450
and you can see in the background what

3021
02:09:54,930 --> 02:09:52,960
what looks like and it's way off in the

3022
02:09:57,870 --> 02:09:54,940
distance but it looks like an egg shaped

3023
02:09:59,460 --> 02:09:57,880
craft with legs coming off of it yeah

3024
02:10:00,360 --> 02:09:59,470
I've seen that image okay I don't know

3025
02:10:02,370 --> 02:10:00,370
what to make of it it's kind of

3026
02:10:04,020 --> 02:10:02,380
fascinating and it's like I said did it

3027
02:10:06,330 --> 02:10:04,030
and I was thinking to show up in other

3028
02:10:07,710 --> 02:10:06,340
pictures but I think that's a no I think

3029
02:10:08,910 --> 02:10:07,720
he has multiple pictures and that's the

3030
02:10:10,950 --> 02:10:08,920
only one that that kind of stuff shows

3031
02:10:13,710 --> 02:10:10,960
up in which is it on the film

3032
02:10:15,600 --> 02:10:13,720
sorry dirt on the film yeah or whatever

3033
02:10:16,680 --> 02:10:15,610
but it's it's kind of fascinating I

3034
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:16,690
don't know what to make of it you know

3035
02:10:20,670 --> 02:10:18,610
you start thinking like things like ted

3036
02:10:22,740 --> 02:10:20,680
serios and and doing this stuff we're

3037
02:10:25,470 --> 02:10:22,750
putting you know images on film just by

3038
02:10:28,340 --> 02:10:25,480
thinking about it so who knows so what's

3039
02:10:32,390 --> 02:10:28,350
next for you are you heading to Phoenix

3040
02:10:34,590 --> 02:10:32,400
yeah I'm gonna go to actually go to a

3041
02:10:38,010 --> 02:10:34,600
UFO Congress yeah because I've got

3042
02:10:39,330 --> 02:10:38,020
friends speaking there and it's it's

3043
02:10:41,190 --> 02:10:39,340
just always good to get together with

3044
02:10:43,530 --> 02:10:41,200
people and talk and might might some

3045
02:10:45,300 --> 02:10:43,540
I've got friends from all over the

3046
02:10:46,890 --> 02:10:45,310
belief spectrum and I like it that way

3047
02:10:51,410 --> 02:10:46,900
some of my friends don't even like each

3048
02:10:54,840 --> 02:10:51,420
other and that's wonderful aren't you

3049
02:10:58,430 --> 02:10:54,850
presenting there this year no no no I

3050
02:11:01,020 --> 02:10:58,440
don't have the last thing I spoke at was

3051
02:11:04,370 --> 02:11:01,030
Utah UFO fest and then there was a small

3052
02:11:07,410 --> 02:11:04,380
meeting out in Joshua Tree that I I

3053
02:11:10,410 --> 02:11:07,420
spoke at but there's nothing on the

3054
02:11:11,880 --> 02:11:10,420
horizon right now not yet I mean I've

3055
02:11:12,660 --> 02:11:11,890
got some I've got people that have

3056
02:11:15,300 --> 02:11:12,670
called me

3057
02:11:16,920 --> 02:11:15,310
it's nothing is settled yet so no I'm

3058
02:11:18,870 --> 02:11:16,930
not speaking this time I've spoken I

3059
02:11:20,790 --> 02:11:18,880
spoke at two UFO congress's when Bob

3060
02:11:24,180 --> 02:11:20,800
Brown was running them and one since

3061
02:11:26,820 --> 02:11:24,190
alejandro rojas has taken over thank you

3062
02:11:30,600 --> 02:11:26,830
so much Greg and your research is

3063
02:11:33,900 --> 02:11:30,610
phenomenal and how often do you release

3064
02:11:35,220 --> 02:11:33,910
a new podcast what I feel like if

3065
02:11:40,590 --> 02:11:35,230
there's one coming up in the next week

3066
02:11:42,840 --> 02:11:40,600
or so and I will continue I will

3067
02:11:45,000 --> 02:11:42,850
continue I went on a hiatus for about

3068
02:11:49,650 --> 02:11:45,010
three months but now I'm I'm back and so

3069
02:11:52,170 --> 02:11:49,660
I've got some backlogs with various

3070
02:11:54,030 --> 02:11:52,180
people talking about okay I talk about

3071
02:11:55,350 --> 02:11:54,040
whatever I want to on my show and I

3072
02:11:56,910 --> 02:11:55,360
don't really care if somebody's popular

3073
02:11:58,830 --> 02:11:56,920
or not I talked to them about what I

3074
02:12:01,800 --> 02:11:58,840
want to talk about with that person like

3075
02:12:03,660 --> 02:12:01,810
you do right on thank you so much Greg

3076
02:12:05,820 --> 02:12:03,670
what a great night on fade to black I

3077
02:12:08,480 --> 02:12:05,830
want to thank you for that and be safe

3078
02:12:11,250 --> 02:12:08,490
out there and it's radio mysterioso

3079
02:12:12,870 --> 02:12:11,260
dot-com now the links are over at Jimmy

3080
02:12:15,600 --> 02:12:12,880
Church where you can just click and head

3081
02:12:17,100 --> 02:12:15,610
straight over to great site thank you so

3082
02:12:19,470 --> 02:12:17,110
much Greg be safe out there

3083
02:12:22,500 --> 02:12:19,480
thanks so much great conversation loved

3084
02:12:25,110 --> 02:12:22,510
it you're the best Greg Bishop again

3085
02:12:28,320 --> 02:12:25,120
Greg's links are over at Jimmy Church

3086
02:12:30,750 --> 02:12:28,330
radio.com and with that I'm gonna get

3087
02:12:32,610 --> 02:12:30,760
out of here tomorrow night Emory Smith

3088
02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:32,620
is back with us

3089
02:12:36,810 --> 02:12:34,810
so we'll see everybody tomorrow night

3090
02:12:39,810 --> 02:12:36,820
Thursday night's another Fator night

3091
02:12:41,490 --> 02:12:39,820
open lines all night long

3092
02:12:43,080 --> 02:12:41,500
fade to black cigs ecute of producers

3093
02:12:45,860 --> 02:12:43,090
ritika Murray on shows produced by

3094
02:12:48,150 --> 02:12:45,870
Hilton Jay Paul Renee Dennis and Bob

3095
02:12:51,150 --> 02:12:48,160
announces our Steve harder Jean Vito

3096
02:12:54,210 --> 02:12:51,160
'mark D cove our webmaster is Drew the

3097
02:12:57,840 --> 02:12:54,220
geek music doug aldrich intro space boys

3098
02:13:02,610 --> 02:12:57,850
space boy music.com fade to black is

3099
02:13:05,880 --> 02:13:02,620
produced by kjsurya productions kedi ra

3100
02:13:07,710 --> 02:13:05,890
the planet spark a stone a copyright of

3101
02:13:08,469 --> 02:13:07,720
2019 by fade to black in the game

3102
02:13:10,750 --> 02:13:08,479
changing out

3103
02:13:12,219 --> 02:13:10,760
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

3104
02:13:14,439 --> 02:13:12,229
copied or used anywhere in the known

3105
02:13:16,390 --> 02:13:14,449
universe without written permission from

3106
02:13:19,060 --> 02:13:16,400
fade to black of the GameChanger Network

3107
02:13:21,189 --> 02:13:19,070
our meals Jimmy Church until tomorrow

3108
02:13:22,739 --> 02:13:21,199
night with Emory Smith I want everybody

3109
02:13:25,350 --> 02:13:22,749
to be safe

3110
02:13:26,040 --> 02:13:25,360
Gobekli Tepe

3111
02:13:46,160 --> 02:13:26,050
[Applause]